Ancient Indian Aircraft Technology

Here’s a couple of very very interesting articles about how UFO phenomenon could partly be explained:


Many researchers into the UFO enigma tend to overlook a very important fact.

While it assumed that most flying saucers are of alien, or perhaps Governmental Military origin, another possible origin of UFOs is ancient India and Atlantis.

What we know about ancient Indian flying vehicles comes from ancient Indian sources; written texts that have come down to us through the centuries. There is no doubt that most of these texts are authentic; many are the well known ancient Indian Epics themselves, and there are literally hundreds of them. Most of them have not even been translated into English yet from the old Sanskrit.

The Indian Emperor Ashoka started a “Secret Society of the Nine Unknown Men”: great Indian scientists who were supposed to catalogue the many sciences. Ashoka kept their work secret because he was afraid that the advanced science catalogued by these men, culled from ancient Indian sources, would be used for the evil purpose of war, which Ashoka was strongly against, having been converted to Buddhism after defeating a rival army in a bloody battle.

The “Nine Unknown Men” wrote a total of nine books, presumably one each. Book number one was “The Secrets of Gravitation!”. This book, known to historians, but not actually seen by them dealt chiefly with “gravity control.” It is presumably still around somewhere, kept in a secret library in India, Tibet or elsewhere (perhaps even in North America somewhere).

One can certainly understand Ashoka’s reasoning for wanting to keep such knowledge a secret, assuming it exists.

If the Nazis had such weapons at their disposal during World War II, Ashoka was also aware devastating wars using such advanced vehicles and other “futuristic weapons” that had destroyed the ancient Indian “Rama Empire” several thousand years before.

Only a few years ago, the Chinese discovered some Sanskrit documents in Lhasa, Tibet and sent them to the University of Chandrigarh to be translated. Dr. Ruth Reyna of the University said recently that the documents contain directions for building interstellar spaceships!

Their method of propulsion, she said, was “anti-gravitational” and was based upon a system analogous to that of “laghima,” the unknown power of the ego existing in man’s physiological makeup, “a centrifugal force strong enough to counteract all gravitational pull.” According to Hindu Yogis, it is this “laghima” which enables a person to levitate.

Dr. Reyna said that on board these machines, which were called “Astras” by the text, the ancient Indians could have sent a detachment of men onto any planet, according to the document, which is thought to be thousands of years old. The manuscripts were also said to reveal the secret of “antima”, “the cap of invisibility” and “garima”, “how to become as heavy as a mountain of lead.”

Naturally, Indian scientists did not take the texts very seriously, but then became more positive about the value of them when the Chinese announced that they were including certain parts of the data for study in their space program! This was one of the first instances of a government admitting to be researching anti-gravity.

The manuscripts did not say definitely that interplanetary travel was ever made but did mention, of all things, a planned trip to the Moon, though it is not clear whether this trip was actually carried out. However, one of the great Indian epics, the Ramayana, does have a highly detailed story in it of a trip to the moon in a Vimana (or “Astra”), and in fact details a battle on the moon with an “Asvin” (or “Atlantean” airship.)

This is but a small bit of recent evidence of anti-gravity and aerospace technology used by Indians. To really understand the technology, we must go much further back in time.

The so-called “Rama Empire” of Northern India and Pakistan developed at least fifteen thousand years ago on the Indian sub-continent and was a nation of many large, sophisticated cities, many of which are still to be found in the deserts of Pakistan, northern, and western India.

Rama existed, apparently, parallel to the Atlantean civilization in the mid-Atlantic Ocean, and was ruled by “enlightened Priest-Kings” who governed the cities, The seven greatest capital cities of Rama were known in classical Hindu texts as “The Seven Rishi Cities.”

According to ancient Indian texts, the people had flying machines which were called “Vimanas.” The ancient Indian epic describes a Vimana as a double-deck, circular aircraft with portholes and a dome, much as we would imagine a flying saucer.

It flew with the “speed of the wind” and gave forth a “melodious sound.” There were at least four different types of Vimanas; some saucer shaped, others like long cylinders (“cigar shaped airships”). The ancient Indian texts on Vimanas are so numerous, it would take volumes to relate what they had to say. The ancient Indians, who manufactured these ships themselves, wrote entire flight manuals on the control of the various types of Vimanas, many of which are still in existence, and some have even been translated into English.

The Samara Sutradhara is a scientific treatise dealing with every possible angle of air travel in a Vimana. There are 230 stanzas dealing with the construction, take-off, cruising for thousand of miles, normal and forced landings, and even possible collisions with birds.

In 1875, the Vaimanika Sastra, a fourth century B.C. text written by Bharadvajy the Wise, using even older texts as his source, was rediscovered in a temple in India. It dealt with the operation of Vimanas and included information on the steering, precautions for long flights, protection of the airships from storms and lightening and how to switch the drive to “solar energy” from a free energy source which sounds like “anti-gravity.”

The Vaimanika Sastra(or Vymaanika-Shaastra) has eight chapters with diagrams, describing three types of aircraft, including apparatuses that could neither catch on fire nor break. It also mentions 31 essential parts of these vehicles and 16 materials from which they are constructed, which absorb light and heat; for which reason they were considered suitable for the construction of Vimanas.

This document has been translated into English and is available by writing the publisher:

VYMAANIDASHAASTRA AERONAUTICS by Maharishi Bharadwaaja, translated into English and edited, printed and published by Mr. G. R. Josyer, Mysore, India, 1979 (sorry, no street address). Mr. Josyer is the director of the International Academy of Sanskrit Investigation located in Mysore.

There seems to be no doubt that Vimanas were powered by some sort of “anti-gravity.”

Vimanas took off vertically, and were capable of hovering in the sky, like a modern helicopter or dirigible. Bharadvajy the Wise refers to no less than 70 authorities and 10 experts of air travel in antiquity. These sources are now lost.

Vimanas were kept in a Vimana Griha, a kind of hanger, and were sometimes said to be propelled by a yellowish-white liquid, and sometimes by some sort of mercury compound, though writers seem confused in this matter. It is most likely that the later writers on Vimanas, wrote as observers and from earlier texts, and were understandably confused on the principle of their propulsion.

The “yellowish-white liquid” sounds suspiciously like gasoline, and perhaps Vimanas had a number of different propulsion sources, including combustion engines and even “pulse-jet” engines. It is interesting to note, that the Nazis developed the first practical pulse-jet engines for their V-8 rocket “buzz bombs.”

Hitler and the Nazi staff were exceptionally interested in ancient India and Tibet and sent expeditions to both these places yearly, starting in the 30’s, in order to gather esoteric evidence that they did so, and perhaps it was from these people that the Nazis gained some of their scientific information!

According to the Dronaparva, part of the Mahabarata, and the Ramayana, one Vimana described was shaped like a sphere and born along at great speed on a mighty wind generated by mercury. It moved like a UFO, going up, down, backwards and forwards as the pilot desired.

In another Indian source, the Samar, Vimanas were,

“iron machines, well-knit and smooth, with a charge of mercury that shot out of the back in the form of a roaring flame.”

Another work called the Samaranganasutradhara describes how the vehicles were constructed. It is possible that mercury did have something to do with the propulsion, or more possibly, with the guidance system.

Curiously, Soviet scientists have discovered what they call “age-old instruments used in navigating cosmic vehicles” in caves in Turkestan and the Gobi Desert. The “devices” are hemispherical objects of glass or porcelain, ending in a cone with a drop of mercury inside.

It is evident that ancient Indians flew around in these vehicles, all over Asia, to Atlantis presumably; and even, apparently, to South America. Writing found at Mohenjodaro in Pakistan (presumed to be one of the “Seven Rishi Cities of the Rama Empire”) and still undeciphered, has also been found in one other place in the world: Easter Island!

Writing on Easter Island, called Rongo-Rongo writing, is also undeciphered, and is uncannily similar to the Mohenjodaro script. Was Easter Island an air base for the Rama Empire’s Vimana route?

(At the Mohenjo-Daro Vimana-drome, as the passenger walks down the concourse, he hears the sweet, melodic sound of the announcer over the loudspeaker,

“Rama Airways flight number seven for Bali, Easter Island, Nazca, and Atlantis is now ready for boarding. Passengers please proceed to gate number..”)

In Tibet, no small distance, and speaks of the “fiery chariot” thusly:

“Bhima flew along in his car, resplendent as the sun and loud as thunder… The flying chariot shone like a flame in the night sky of summer … it swept by like a comet… It was as if two suns were shining. Then the chariot rose up and all the heaven brightened.”

In the Mahavira of Bhavabhuti, a Jain text of the eighth century culled from older texts and traditions, we read:

“An aerial chariot, the Pushpaka, conveys many people to the capital of Ayodhya. The sky is full of stupendous flying-machines, dark as night, but picked out by lights with a yellowish glare”

The Vedas, ancient Hindu poems, thought to be the oldest of all the Indian texts, describe Vimanas of various shapes and sizes:

the “ahnihotra-vimana” with two engines, the “elephant-vimana” with more engines, and other types named after the kingfisher, ibis and other animals.

Unfortunately, Vimanas, like most scientific discoveries, were ultimately used for war.

Atlanteans used their flying machines, “Vailixi,” a similar type of aircraft, to literally try and subjugate the world, it would seem, if Indian texts are to be believed. The Atlanteans, known as “Asvins” in the Indian writings, were apparently even more advanced technologically than the Indians, and certainly of a more war-like temperament.

Although no ancient texts on Atlantean Vailixi are known to exist, some information has come down through esoteric, “occult” sources which describe their flying machines. Similar, if not identical to Vimanas, Vailixi were generally “cigar shaped” and had the capability of maneuvering underwater as well as in the atmosphere or even outer space. Other vehicles, like Vimanas, were saucer shaped, and could apparently also be submerged.

According to Eklal Kueshana, author of “The Ultimate Frontier,” in an article he wrote in 1966, Vailixi were first developed in Atlantis 20,000 years ago, and the most common ones are,

“saucer-shaped of generally trapezoidal cross-section with three hemispherical engine pods on the underside.”

“They use a mechanical antigravity device driven by engines developing approximately 80,000 horse power.”

The Ramayana, Mahabarata and other texts speak of the hideous war that took place, some ten or twelve thousand years ago between Atlantis and Rama using weapons of destruction that could not be imagined by readers until the second half of this century.

The ancient Mahabharata, one of the sources on Vimanas, goes on to tell the awesome destructiveness of the war:

“…(the weapon was) a single projectile
charged with all the power of the Universe.
An incandescent column of smoke and flame
As bright as the thousand suns rose in all its splendor…

An iron thunderbolt,
A gigantic messenger of death,
Which reduced to ashes
The entire race of the Vrishnis
And the Andhakas.

… the corpses were so burned
As to be unrecognizable.
The hair and nails fell out;
Pottery broke without apparent cause,
And the birds turned white.

… After a few hours
All foodstuffs were infected…
… to escape from this fire
The soldiers threw themselves in streams
To wash themselves and their equipment…”

It would seem that the Mahabharata is describing an atomic war! References like this one are not isolated; but battles, using a fantastic array of weapons and aerial vehicles are common in all the epic Indian books. One even describes a Vimana-Vailix battle on the Moon! The above section very accurately describes what an atomic explosion would look like and the effects of the radioactivity on the population. Jumping into water is the only respite.

When the Rishi City of Mohenjodaro was excavated by archeologists in the last century, they found skeletons just lying in the streets, some of them holding hands, as if some great doom had suddenly overtaken them. These skeletons are among the most radioactive ever found, on a par with those found at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Ancient cities whose brick and stone walls have literally been vitrified, that is-fused together, can be found in India, Ireland, Scotland, France, Turkey and other places. There is no logical explanation for the vitrification of stone forts and cities, except from an atomic blast.

Furthermore, at Mohenjo-Daro, a well planned city laid on a grid, with a plumbing system superior to those used in Pakistan and India today, the streets were littered with “black lumps of glass.” These globs of glass were discovered to be clay pots that had melted under intense heat!

With the cataclysmic sinking of Atlantis and the wiping out of Rama with atomic weapons, the world collapsed into a “stone age” of sorts, and modern history picks up a few thousand years later. Yet, it would seem that not all the Vimanas and Vailixi of Rama and Atlantis were gone. Built to last for thousands of of years, many of them would still be in use, as evidenced by Ashoka’s “Nine Unknown Men” and the Lhasa manuscript.

That secret societies or “Brotherhoods” of exceptional, “enlightened” human beings would have preserved these inventions and the knowledge of science, history, etc., does not seem surprising.

Many well known historical personages including Jesus, Buddha, Lao Tzu, Confucius, Krishna, Zoroaster, Mahavira, Quetzalcoatl, Akhenaton, Moses, and more recent inventors and of course many other people who will probably remain anonymous, were probably members of such a secret organization.

It is interesting to note that when Alexander the Great invaded India more than two thousand years ago, his historians chronicled that at one point they were attacked by “flying, fiery shields” that dove at his army and frightened the cavalry. These “flying saucers” did not use any atomic bombs or beam weapons on Alexander’s army however, perhaps out of benevolence, and Alexander went on to conquer India.

It has been suggested by many writers that these “Brotherhoods” keep some of their Vimanas and Vailixi in secret caverns in Tibet or some other place is Central Asia, and the Lop Nor Desert in western China is known to be the center of a great UFO mystery. Perhaps it is here that many of the airships are still kept, in underground bases much as the Americans, British and Soviets have built around the world in the past few decades.

Still, not all UFO activity can be accounted for by old Vimanas making trips to the Moon for some reason. Undoubtedly, some are from the Military Governments of the world, and possibly even from other planets.

Source

And here’s another small article:

TIRUPATI —

‘India had a treasure trove of hitech warfare technology that even the ‘mighty West’ does not possess. The Brahmastra and Vimana used in the pre-Mahabharata period are nothing but the earlier versions of today’s nuclear weapons and spacecraft.’

It is this feeling that one would get after listening to a lecture on ‘High Technology in Ancient Sanskrit Literature‘ by Mr. C. S. R. Prabhu, senior scientist, NIC, Hyderabad, on Thursday as part of the three- day Indo-Nepal Sanskrit Conference, currently underway at the Rashtriya Sanskrit Vidyapeetha here.

Mr. Prabhu, quoting extensively from ancient texts, stressed that the pre-Mahabharata period was an age of high technology, which was ignored in the Medieval period due to reasons not known.

He quoted from the texts of a great scholar, Subbaraya Sastry, who, in a state of yogic trance, is said to have orally dictated the spacecraft technology in a period somewhere between 1875 and 1919, which was recorded by his disciples. The text, a copy of which is still in Nepal’s Royal Library, contained technical details on assembling, fabricating and erecting a spacecraft, the metals, semi-conductors, advanced alloys used and other minute aeronautical information. Though quite difficult to be believed on the face of it, the fact that this technology did not exist anywhere in the world – not even in America and Europe – in the mentioned period, makes it hard for one to disbelieve.

Artwork by James Neff

The technical information given in Sastry’s texts was as minute, precise and clear, as if it were a ‘Make your own spacecraft’ or a ‘Spacecraft technology in 30 days’ except for the Sanskrit language used, which was very much archaic and obsolete, Mr. Prabhu said. On a tip on making an alloy, the text said ‘Krishnaseesam Chanjanikam Vajrathundam samamsathaha’ from which the real meaning of ‘Vajrathundam’ (used in that context), could not be found in any contemporary Sanskrit dictionary.

”After a great amount of interaction with ayurvedic specialists and Swamijis with intuitive interpretations, it turned out to be the cactus plant,” he said.

To further strengthen his claim, he said there were wall paintings in some forts in Rajasthan depicting the use of rockets in Mughal warfare and even by Tipu Sultan of Mysore. Another interesting fact he gave was that the spacecraft could become invisible on its own. The lead alloy (Thamogarbha loha) used in making the body of the spacecraft would absorb light around it in a photo chemical reaction that would make it disappear.

On testing the Krishna seesa metal mentioned in the formula in the laboratory of Birla Institute of Science, Hyderabad, Mr. Prabhu found the metal absorbing 78 per cent of laser light, which means, any other light could be easily absorbed, giving ample proof that there existed a technology to make things invisible. Also the use of an alloy of copper, zinc and lead made the spacecraft’s body resist corrosion by 1000 times over that of the current levels. Using Ararakamra material for the axle and wheels had made it possible for taking ‘U’ turns and serpentine movements.

An astonishing fact is that the Ararakamra metal was an alloy of copper, zinc, lead and iron, the combination of which is impossible, according to modern metallurgy. Technically, the ”Young’s modulus” of this metal is said to be higher than that of steel, making it stronger. As the spacecraft had to be capable of resisting high temperature, on re-entering our atmosphere from the outer space, its body was made with a metal called ‘Raja Loha‘. Its special feature was that apart from resisting heat, it converted light from lightnings into energy. To crosscheck all these details, there were no furnaces available in Hyderabad to melt metals at a high temperature of 2500 degrees celcius, Mr. Prabhu lamented.

Another hitch came into his research in the form of the ‘energy’ used.

‘Though the texts explained that the spacecraft was propelled by ‘Sourasakthi‘, modern solar technology does not generate so much power to drag a rocket’, he pointed out.

Later he found out to his bewilderment that it was a kind of ‘nuclear power’ that was used in those days.

‘The solar power, when coupled with gamma rays produced nuclear energy that had the power to propel a rocket’, Mr. Prabhu observed.

He even spoke on ‘Tripura Vimana‘ that was used to travel in space, water and on land, by using the metal ‘Trinetra loha‘. Mr. Prabhu said he had submitted the model and some more information on the ‘super metal’ to the Indian Metal Society Conference and further claimed that the advisor to the government on scientific affairs Dr. A. P. J. Abdul Kalam too had asked him to bring the design of the plane.

A committee which was appointed by Indian Institute of Science to investigate into it, declared Sastry’s texts as ‘fraud’, but Mr. Prabhu reasons that the descriptions mentioned in the ancient texts were perhaps too advanced to believe, making the committee to hastily come to the conclusion. He wanted a national level effort to prove that the so called myths‘ were in fact, scientific formulae on advanced technology. He said he had proposed a project called ‘Bharadwaja Institute of Vedic Science and Technology‘, the objective of which was to derive, decipher and reproduce advanced methodologies and processes from Vedic and post-Vedic Sanskrit texts, for which he sought government’s support.

Source

And here’s a nice little video series about this (3 parts):

Did Ancient Biotech Create “Nephilim”? Will Modern Science Bring Them Again?

I have always been interest in giants and nephilims. Here’s another article about how modern science could resurrect these beasts:

res

Image Source

The benei Elohim saw the daughters of Adam, that they were fit extensions

(Gen 6:2, Interlinear Hebrew Bible)

In the study of the Old Testament Book of Genesis, beings of great stature called “giants” appear, which some scholars believe came into existence after powerful angels known as ‘Watchers’ descended to earth and used women (or their biological matter) to construct bodies of flesh, which they used to “extend” themselves into the material world.

The Apocryphal books of Enoch, 2 Esdras, Genesis Aprocryphon and Jasher support the Genesis story, adding that the sin of the angels grew to include genetic modification of animals as well as humans.

The Book of Jasher, mentioned in the Bible in Joshua 10:13 and 2 Samuel 1:18, says,

“After the fallen angels went into the daughters of men, the sons of men taught the mixture of animals of one species with the other, in order to provoke the Lord”

(4:18)

This clear reference to the Genesis 6 record illustrates that “animals” were included in whatever cross-species experiments were being conducted, and that this activity resulted in judgment from God.

The Book of Enoch also supports this record, saying that after the fallen angels merged their DNA with women, they,

“began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish”

(7:5,6)

The Old Testament contains associated reference to genetic mutations, which developed among humans following this activity, including unusual size, physical strength, six fingers, six toes, animal appetite for blood and even lion-like features among men (2 Sam 21:20; 23:20).

What if, by corrupting the species barrier in which each creature was to recreate after its “own kind,” Watchers had successfully mingled human-animal DNA and combined the hereditary traits of different species into a single new mutation?

An entirely new being—Nephilim—might have suddenly possessed the combined intelligence and instincts (seeing, hearing, smelling, reacting to the environment) of several life forms and in ways unfamiliar to creation.


Will modern biotechnology resurrect Nephilim?

Today, molecular biologists classify the functions of genes within native species but are unsure in many cases how a gene’s coding might react from one species to another. In recombinant DNA technology, a “transgenic” organism is created when the genetic structure of one species is altered by the transfer of a gene or genes from another.

This could change not only the genetic structure of the modified animal and its offspring, but its evolutionary development, sensory modalities, disease propensity, personality and behavior traits among other things.

Such transgenic tinkering already exists in many parts of the world including the United States, Britain and Australia where animal eggs are being used to create hybrid human embryos from which stem cell lines can be produced for medical research.

A team at Newcastle and Durham universities in the UK recently announced plans to,

“create hybrid rabbit and human embryos, as well as other ‘chimera’ embryos mixing human and cow genes.”

More alarmingly, the same researchers have already managed to reanimate tissue,

“from dead human cells in another breakthrough which was heralded as a way of overcoming ethical dilemmas over using living embryos for medical research” (1)

In the United States, similar studies led Irv Weissman, director of Stanford University’s Institute of Cancer/Stem Cell Biology and Medicine in California to create mice with partly human brains, causing some ethicists to raise the issue of “humanized animals” in the future that could become “self aware” as a result of genetic modification.

Even the President of the United States, George W. Bush in his January 31st, 2006 State of the Union Address called for legislation to,

“prohibit…. creating human-animal hybrids, and buying, selling, or patenting human embryos.”

Not everybody shares these concerns.

A radical, international, intellectual, and cultural movement known as “Transhumanism” supports the use of new sciences including genetic modification to enhance human mental and physical abilities and aptitudes so that,

“human beings will eventually be transformed into beings with such greatly expanded abilities as to merit the label ‘posthuman'” (2)

I have personally debated leading transhumanist, Dr. James Hughes on his weekly syndicated talk show, Changesurfer Radio. Hughes is Executive Director of the Institute for Ethics and Emerging Technologies and teaches at Trinity College in Hartford Connecticut.

He is also the author of “Citizen Cyborg: Why Democratic Societies Must Respond to the Redesigned Human of the Future“, a sort of Bible for transhumanist values.

Dr. Hughes joins a growing body of academics, bioethicists and sociologists who support,

“large-scale genetic and neurological engineering of ourselves….[a] new chapter in evolution [as] the result of accelerating developments in the fields of genomics, stem-cell research, genetic enhancement, germ-line engineering, neuro-pharmacology, artificial intelligence, robotics, pattern recognition technologies, and nanotechnology…. at the intersection of science and religion [which has begun to question] what it means to be human…” (3)

In related development, Case Law School in Cleveland was awarded a $773,000 grant in April 2006 from the National Institutes of Health to develop guidelines,

“for the use of human subjects in what could be the next frontier in medical technology – genetic enhancement.”

Maxwell Mehlman, Arthur E. Petersilge Professor of Law, director of the Law-Medicine Center at the Case Western Reserve University School of Law, and professor of bioethics in the Case School of Medicine is leading the team of,

“law professors, physicians, and bioethicists in the two-year project to develop standards for tests on human subjects in research that involves the use of genetic technologies to enhance ‘normal’ individuals – to make them smarter, stronger, or better-looking” (4)

Other law schools including Stanford and Oxford have recently hosted “Human Enhancement and Technology” conferences where transhumanists, futurists, bioethicists and legal scholars merged to discuss the ethical and legal ramifications of post-humans.

In his book “Life, Liberty and the Defense of Dignity – The Challenges of Bioethics“, the former chairman of the President’s Council on Bioethics, Leon Kass provided a status report on where we stand today regarding transhumanism.

He warned in the introduction that,

“Human nature itself lies on the operating table, ready for alteration, for eugenic and psychic ‘enhancement,’ for wholesale redesign. In leading laboratories, academic and industrial, new creators are confidently amassing their powers and quietly honing their skills, while on the street their evangelists are zealously prophesying a posthuman future. For anyone who cares about preserving our humanity, the time has come for paying attention” (5)

Not to be outdone in this regard by the National Institute of Health, DARPA and other agencies of the U.S. military have taken inspiration from the likes of Tolkein’s Lord of the Rings.

In a scene reminiscent of Saruman the wizard creating monstrous Uruk-Hai to wage unending, merciless war, we find billions of American tax dollars have flowed into the Pentagon’s Frankensteinian dream of “super-soldiers” and the “Extended Performance War Fighter” program (EPWFP).

Not only does the EPWFP envision

“injecting young men and women with hormonal, neurological and genetic concoctions; implanting microchips and electrodes in their bodies to control their internal organs and brain functions; and plying them with drugs that deaden some of their normal human tendencies; the need for sleep, the fear of death, [and] the reluctance to kill their fellow human beings,” but Chris Floyd in an article for CounterPunch a while back quoted the Daily Telegraph and Christian Science Monitor, saying,

“some of the research now underway involves actually altering the genetic code of soldiers, modifying bits of DNA to fashion a new type of human specimen, one that functions like a machine, killing tirelessly for days and nights on end…. mutations [that] will ‘revolutionize the contemporary order of battle’ and guarantee ‘operational dominance across the whole range of potential U.S. military employments” (6)

In keeping with our editorial, imagine the staggering implications of such science if dead Nephilim tissue was discovered with intact DNA and a government somewhere that was willing to clone or mingle the extracted organisms to make Homo-nephilim. If one accepts the biblical story of giants as real, such discovery could actually be made someday, or perhaps already has been and was covered up.

The technology to resurrect the extinct species already exists, and cloning methods are being studied now for use with bringing back Tasmanian Tigers, Wooly Mammoths and other extinguished creatures.

Let not the dead live, let not the giants rise again…

(Isaiah 26.14, Douay-Rheims Version)

The reference above from the Book of Isaiah 26:14 could be troubling, as it may reflect a prayer from the prophet, a petition to God not to allow the giants to incarnate again.

Did Isaiah pray this way because he knew something about the future, something related to a return of Nephilim?

The relationship between creatures called “Rephaim” and the Nephilim of ancient texts is enlightening, as Rephaim are viewed as the spirits of dead Nephilim in the grave.

The word “Rephaim” carries with it the meaning ‘to heal’ or to be ‘healed’ as in a ‘resurrection’. In the Ras Shamra texts, the Rephaim are described as both human and divine beings who worshipped the Amorite god Ba’al, the ruler of the underworld, where the Rephaim served as his acolyte assembly of lesser gods, kings, heroes, and rulers.

These beings were believed to have power to return from the dead through incarnation in bodily form as ‘Nephilim’. The ability of Rephaim to be reincarnated in this way as living Nephilim is viewed by some as the explanation for Nephilim existing before, and after, the Great Flood.

The book of Job may elucidate this idea when it says,

“Dead things are formed from under the waters….”

(Job 26.5)

The dead in this text are Rephaim and the phrase “are formed” is from “Chuwl”, meaning to twist or whirl as in a double helix coil or genetic manufacturing.

When combined with something my good friend Steve Quayle once wrote, the word “Chuwl” takes on added meaning:

“When the Greek Septuagint was created, the Hebrew word Nephilim was translated into Greek as ‘gegenes‘. This is the same word used in Greek mythology for the ‘Titans’, creatures created through the interbreeding of the Greek gods and human beings.

The English words ‘genes’ and ‘genetics’ are built around the same root word as gegenes; genea meaning ‘breed’ or ‘kind’. Thus, the choice of this word again suggests a genetic component to the creation of these giants.” (7)

And what about this prophecy from Isaiah:

The vision which Esaias son of Amos saw against Babylon. Lift up a standard on the mountain of the plain, exalt the voice to them, beckon with the hand, open the gates, ye ruler. I give command and I bring them: giants are coming to fulfill my wrath…For behold! the day of the Lord is coming which cannot be escaped, a day of wrath and anger, to make the world desolate…

And Babylon…shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah…It shall never be inhabited… and monsters shall rest there, and devils shall dance there and satyrs shall dwell there…”

(Isaiah 13:1-3, 9, 19-22, [Septuagint Version])

Given what is happening in Babylon (Iraq) and biotechnology today, we may be witnessing the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy


NOTES

(1) Picken, Jane. Medical Marvels, The Evening Chronicle, April 13, 2007
(2) Wikipedia, The Free Enclyclopedia. Transhumanism, 2 May. 2007. Wikimedia Foundation Inc.
(3) Grassie, William. What does it mean to be Human? A John Templeton Foundation Research Lecture Query, 2006
(4) Case Western Reserve University. Case Law School receives $773,000 NIH grant to develop guidelines for genetic enhancement research: Professor Max Mehlman to lead team of law professors, physicians, and bioethicists in two-year project, April 28, 2006
(5) Kass, Leon R. Life, Liberty and the Defense of Dignity: The Challenge for Bioethics, Encounter Books; 1 edition (October 25, 2002)
(6) Floyd, Chris. Monsters, Inc.: The Pentagon Plan to Create Mutant “Super-Soldiers”, CounterPunch, January 13, 2003
(7) Quayle, Steve. Genesis 6 Giants. Bozeman, MT: End Time Thunder Publishers, 2002.
(8) http://www.ccel.org/bible/brenton/Isaiah/13.html

Source

Climate Change: Washington’s New World Order Weapons

Could chemtrails be part of this agenda?:

HAARP-QSL

Climate Change: Washington’s New World Order Weapons
by Michel Chossudovsky
Professor of Economics, University of Ottawa,
Author of The Globalization of Poverty, second edition,
Common Courage Press, 2000

November 26, 2000

The Americans and the Russians have developed capabilities to manipulate the World’s climate.
Dr. Rosalie Bertell confirms that “US military scientists are working on weather systems as a potential weapon.”

IT’S NOT ONLY GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS: WASHINGTON’S NEW WORLD ORDER WEAPONS HAVE THE ABILITY TO TRIGGER CLIMATE CHANGE

The important debate on global warming under UN auspices provides but a partial picture of climate change; in addition to the devastating impacts of greenhouse gas emissions on the ozone layer, the World’s climate can now be modified as part of a new generation of sophisticated “non-lethal weapons.” Both the Americans and the Russians have developed capabilities to manipulate the World’s climate.

In the US, the technology is being perfected under the High-frequency Active Aural Research Program (HAARP) as part of the (“Star Wars”) Strategic Defence Initiative (SDI). Recent scientific evidence suggests that HAARP is fully operational and has the ability of potentially triggering floods, droughts, hurricanes and earthquakes. From a military standpoint, HAARP is a weapon of mass destruction. Potentially, it constitutes an instrument of conquest capable of selectively destabilising agricultural and ecological systems of entire regions.

While there is no evidence that this deadly technology has been used, surely the United Nations should be addressing the issue of “environmental warfare” alongside the debate on the climatic impacts of greenhouse gases.

Despite a vast body of scientific knowledge, the issue of deliberate climatic manipulations for military use has never been explicitly part of the UN agenda on climate change. Neither the official delegations nor the environmental action groups participating in the Hague Conference on Climate Change (CO6) (November 2000) have raised the broad issue of “weather warfare” or “environmental modification techniques (ENMOD)” as relevant to an understanding of climate change.

The clash between official negotiators, environmentalists and American business lobbies has centered on Washington’s outright refusal to abide by commitments on carbon dioxide reduction targets under the 1997 Kyoto protocol.1 The impacts of military technologies on the World’s climate are not an object of discussion or concern. Narrowly confined to greenhouse gases, the ongoing debate on climate change serves Washington’s strategic and defense objectives.

“WEATHER WARFARE”

World renowned scientist Dr. Rosalie Bertell confirms that “US military scientists are working on weather systems as a potential weapon. The methods include the enhancing of storms and the diverting of vapor rivers in the Earth’s atmosphere to produce targeted droughts or floods.”2 Already in the 1970s, former National Security advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski had foreseen in his book “Between Two Ages” that:

“Technology will make available, to the leaders of major nations, techniques for conducting secret warfare, of which only a bare minimum of the security forces need be appraised… Techniques of weather modification could be employed to produce prolonged periods of drought or storm.”

Marc Filterman, a former French military officer, outlines several types of “unconventional weapons” using radio frequencies. He refers to “weather war,” indicating that the U.S. and the Soviet Union had already “mastered the know-how needed to unleash sudden climate changes (hurricanes, drought) in the early 1980s.”3 These technologies make it “possible to trigger atmospheric disturbances by using Extremely Low Frequency (ELF) radar [waves].” 4

A simulation study of future defense “scenarios” commissioned for the US Air Force calls for:

“US aerospace forces to ’own the weather’ by capitalizing on emerging technologies and focusing development of those technologies to war-fighting applications. From enhancing friendly operations or disrupting those of the enemy via small-scale tailoring of natural weather patterns to complete dominance of global communications and counterspace control, weather-modification offers the war fighter a wide-range of possible options to defeat or coerce an adversary… In the United States, weather-modification will likely become a part of national security policy with both domestic and international applications. Our government will pursue such a policy, depending on its interests, at various levels. 5

THE HIGH-FREQUENCY ACTIVE AURAL RESEARCH PROGRAM (HAARP)

The High-Frequency Active Aural Research Program (HAARP) based in Gokoma Alaska –jointly managed by the US Air Force and the US Navy– is part of a new generation of sophisticated weaponry under the US Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI). Operated by the Air Force Research Laboratory’s Space Vehicles Directorate, HAARP constitutes a system of powerful antennas capable of creating “controlled local modifications of the ionosphere”. Scientist Dr. Nicholas Begich –actively involved in the public campaign against HAARP– describes HAARP as:

“A super-powerful radiowave-beaming technology that lifts areas of the ionosphere [upper layer of the atmosphere] by focusing a beam and heating those areas. Electromagnetic waves then bounce back onto earth and penetrate everything — living and dead.” 6

Dr. Rosalie Bertell depicts HAARP as “a gigantic heater that can cause major disruption in the ionosphere, creating not just holes, but long incisions in the protective layer that keeps deadly radiation from bombarding the planet.” 7

MISLEADING PUBLIC OPINION

HAARP has been presented to public opinion as a program of scientific and academic research. US military documents seem to suggest, however, that HAARP’s main objective is to “exploit the ionosphere for Department of Defense purposes.” 8 Without explicitly referring to the HAARP program, a US Air Force study points to the use of “induced ionospheric modifications” as a means of altering weather patterns as well as disrupting enemy communications and radar.9

According to Dr. Rosalie Bertell, HAARP is part of an integrated weapons’ system, which has potentially devastating environmental consequences:

“It is related to fifty years of intensive and increasingly destructive programs to understand and control the upper atmosphere. It would be rash not to associate HAARP with the space laboratory construction which is separately being planned by the United States. HAARP is an integral part of a long history of space research and development of a deliberate military nature. The military implications of combining these projects is alarming. The ability of the HAARP / Spacelab/ rocket combination to deliver very large amount of energy, comparable to a nuclear bomb, anywhere on earth via laser and particle beams, are frightening. The project is likely to be “sold” to the public as a space shield against incoming weapons, or, for the more gullible, a device for repairing the ozone layer. 10

In addition to weather manipulation, HAARP has a number of related uses:

“HAARP could contribute to climate change by intensively bombarding the atmosphere with high-frequency rays… Returning low-frequency waves at high intensity could also affect people’s brains, and effects on tectonic movements cannot be ruled out. 11.

More generally, HAARP has the ability of modifying the World’s electro-magnetic field. It is part of an arsenal of “electronic weapons” which US military researchers consider a “gentler and kinder warfare”.12

WEAPONS OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER

HAARP is part of the weapons arsenal of the New World Order under the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI). From military command points in the US, entire national economies could potentially be destabilized through climatic manipulations. More importantly, the latter can be implemented without the knowledge of the enemy, at minimal cost and without engaging military personnel and equipment as in a conventional war.

The use of HAARP — if it were to be applied– could have potentially devastating impacts on the World’s climate. Responding to US economic and strategic interests, it could be used to selectively modify climate in different parts of the World resulting in the destabilization of agricultural and ecological systems.

It is also worth noting that the US Department of Defense has allocated substantial resources to the development of intelligence and monitoring systems on weather changes. NASA and the Department of Defense’s National Imagery and Mapping Agency (NIMA) are working on “imagery for studies of flooding, erosion, land-slide hazards, earthquakes, ecological zones, weather forecasts, and climate change” with data relayed from satellites. 13

POLICY INERTIA OF THE UNITED NATIONS

According to the Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) signed at the 1992 Earth Summit in Rio de Janeiro: “States have in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations and the principles of international law, the responsibility to ensure that activities within their jurisdiction or control do not cause damage to the environment of other States or of areas beyond the limits of national jurisdiction.” 14

It is also worth recalling that an international Convention ratified by the UN General Assembly in 1997 bans “military or other hostile use of environmental modification techniques having widespread, long-lasting or severe effects.”15 Both the US and the Soviet Union were signatories to the Convention. The Convention defines “’environmental modification techniques’ as referring to any technique for changing–through the deliberate manipulation of natural processes–the dynamics, composition or structure of the earth, including its biota, lithosphere, hydrosphere and atmosphere or of outer space.” 16

Why then did the UN –disregarding the 1977 ENMOD Convention, as well as its own charter, decide to exclude from its agenda climatic changes resulting from military programs?

EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT ACKNOWLEDGES IMPACTS OF HAARP

In February 1998, responding to a report of Mrs. Maj Britt Theorin –Swedish MEP and longtime peace advocate–, the European Parliament’s Committee on Foreign Affairs, Security and Defense Policy held public hearings in Brussels on the HAARP program.17 The Committee’s “Motion for Resolution” submitted to the European Parliament:

“Considers HAARP by virtue of its far-reaching impact on the environment to be a global concern and calls for its legal, ecological and ethical implications to be examined by an international independent body…; [the Committee] regrets the repeated refusal of the United States Administration… to give evidence to the public hearing into the environmental and public risks [of] the HAARP program.” 18.

The Committee’s request to draw up a “Green Paper” on “the environmental impacts of military activities”, however, was casually dismissed on the grounds that the European Commission lacks the required jurisdiction to delve into “the links between environment and defense”. 19 Brussels was anxious to avoid a showdown with Washington.

FULLY OPERATIONAL

While there is no concrete evidence of HAARP having been used, scientific findings suggest that it is at present fully operational. What this means is that HAARP could potentially be applied by the US military to selectively modify the climate of an “unfriendly nation” or “rogue state” with a view to destabilizing its national economy.

Agricultural systems in both developed and developing countries are already in crisis as a result of New World Order policies including market deregulation, commodity dumping, etc. Amply documented, IMF and World Bank “economic medicine” imposed on the Third World and the countries of the former Soviet block has largely contributed to the destabilization of domestic agriculture. In turn, the provisions of the World Trade Organization (WTO) have supported the interests of a handful of Western agri-biotech conglomerates in their quest to impose genetically modified (GMO) seeds on farmers throughout the World.

It is important to understand the linkage between the economic, strategic and military processes of the New World Order. In the above context, climatic manipulations under the HAARP program (whether accidental or deliberate) would inevitably exacerbate these changes by weakening national economies, destroying infrastructure and potentially triggering the bankruptcy of farmers over vast areas. Surely national governments and the United Nations should address the possible consequences of HAARP and other “non-lethal weapons” on climate change.

NOTES

1. The latter calls for nations to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by an average of 5.2 percent to become effective between 2008 and 2012. See Background of Kyoto Protocol at http://www.globalwarming.net/gw11.html

2. The Times, London, 23 November 2000.

3. Intelligence Newsletter, December 16, 1999.

4. Ibid.

5. Air University of the US Air Force, AF 2025 Final Report, http://www.au.af.mil/au/2025/ (emphasis added).

6. Nicholas Begich and Jeane Manning, The Military’s Pandora’s Box, Earthpulse Press, http://www.xyz.net/~nohaarp/earthlight.html See also the HAARP home page at http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/

7. See Briarpatch, January, 2000. (emphasis added).

8. Quoted in Begich and Manning, op cit.

9. Air University, op cit.

10. Rosalie Bertell, Background of the HAARP Program, 5 November, 1996, http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/envronmt/weapons.htm

11. Begich and Manning, op cit.

12. Don Herskovitz, Killing Them Softly, Journal of Electronic Defense, August 1993. (emphasis added). According to Herskovitz, “electronic warfare” is defined by the US Department of Defense as “military action involving the use of electromagnetic energy…” The Journal of Electronic Defense at http://www.jedefense.com/ has published a range of articles on the application of electronic and electromagnetic military technologies.

13. Military Space, 6 December, 1999.

14. UN Framework Convention on Climate Change, New York, 1992. See complete text at http://www.unfccc.de/resource/conv/conv_002.html (emphasis added).

15. See Associated Press, 18 May 1977.

16. Environmental Modification Ban Faithfully Observed, States Parties Declare, UN Chronicle, July, 1984, Vol. 21, p. 27.

17. European Report, 7 February 1998.

18. European Parliament, Committee on Foreign Affairs, Security and Defense Policy, Brussels, doc. no. A4-0005/99, 14 January 1999.

19. EU Lacks Jurisdiction to Trace Links Between Environment and Defense, European Report, 3 February 1999.

Copyright by Michel Chossudovsky, Ottawa, November, 2000.

All rights reserved. Permission is granted to post this text on non-commercial community internet sites, provided the essay remains intact and the copyright note is displayed. To publish this text in printed and/or other forms contact the author at:

Michel Chossudovsky
Department of Economics,
University of Ottawa, Ottawa, K1N6N5

chossudovsky@videotron.ca,
(Altern. E-mail: chossudovsky@sprint.ca)
fax: 1-514-425-6224
voice mail: 1-613-562-5800, ext. 1415

Source

Video about HAARP:

Senator Murkowski asks questions about the impending dismantling of the HAARP facility in Alaska. Basically the defense related research has been done, they are moving on to other ways of managing the problems the ionosphere poses for radio communication, and nobody wants to pay the $5 Million a year to keep it running for academic research.

A Brief History of Remote Viewing

77543_f496
Image source

If you don’t know anything about remote viewing… well now is the time to check it out. I have made postings about it earlier, and here they are:

https://www.auricmedia.net/remote-viewing-baltic-anomaly/

https://www.auricmedia.net/remote-viewer-edward-riordan-views-comet-ison/

https://www.auricmedia.net/2014-predictions-with-major-ed-dames/

And here is the brief history about remote viewing:

Let me begin by saying that as I have studied in the various civilian and military universities I have attended, I have been witness to, and personally held many academic and intellectual views on what the “truth” is about many things.

The author, Felipe Fernandez-Armesto wrote,

“truth, time and history are found in paintings and not in books [or essays] born of the recollections of others.”

As I grow older, I have come to maintain that truth has been and always will be, a matter of one’s perception, captured and held briefly in the moment, and then faded into memory. I teach a segment in Phase I of the Coordinate Remote Viewing class, on truth or reality, as it exists only in the moment, whereas all else in the future or the past is illusion−becoming increasing possibilities in time, increasing interpretations, increasing angles of reconstruction, increasing notions, and amalgams of ideas and emotions. Even when there is an alleged consensus of opinion or recollection of the past−it is really only interpretive data that is “agreed upon.”

Recollection is not fact, in fact, it is only fiction… a creation born in the minds of those who agreed on a version to suit their own agenda… whatever that agenda may be.

For those interested in the “truth” of the latter, you can search the mathematical explanation for these notions, which are supported in the work of physicist and Nobel laureate, P. Dirac, Ph.D. Time drags truth into history, but history itself does not care, only those who attempt to record and recount it care; and they fall victim to their own perceptions and willing acceptance of what is−according to them. The truth about Remote Viewing is trapped between fundamentalists, who believe they have the only truth, and relativists, who refuse to pin it down.

So, what does all of this mean, and why this approach as a preface to a brief history of Remote Viewing?

Simple. I want you to know that this is a version of the history. I want you to know that the history of Remote Viewing should be used to establish a degree of credibility for the art and science of it−and then let it go. The great reverence of the truth of Remote Viewing waits in the future of the human application of this great gift. Too much is wasted in the re-raking of the past, the reconstruction of how it was or how it could have been. Remote Viewing is the promise of what can be−of what is possible for humanity.

When we read history, we must understand that we are reading the account of one individual’s recollection of events narrated in such a way as to capture the consensual beliefs of others that “this version” of the events is simply, as it really was. Therefore, I submit to the reader that truth cannot be viewed as an objective, rather it must be seen as a path. A path of understanding that the only way to know truth is to explore it in a world devoid of the interpretation and filters of others−learning Remote Viewing is one path that will bring about this awareness and ability.

Remote Viewing is not a new phenomenon; the ability has been ours since the beginning of time. The formulation and systemization of theological doctrine as set forth in ancient records present us with countless examples of humanity’s learned and inherent abilities to transcend the physical; to see in the mind’s eye, people, places and events separate from their physical reality.

From the ancient hieroglyphics carved into the walls of forgotten Egyptian tombs, to the “Emerald Tablets of Thoth the Atlantean“, the Urantia Book, A Course in Miracles, the Old Testament, the Koran, the Kabbalah, the Talmud, and the New Testament −to name but a few− all give accounts of journeys out of the physical body, to night flights of soul, to projections of consciousness, et cetera.

However, the most recent history began circa 1972 when the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) learned through various human intelligence sources that the Czechs, Chinese, Soviets, Germans, the Israelis and even the British, were all heavily involved in the study of various aspects of what would be called the “paranormal.”

These investigations were in many ways the spawn of very bizarre programs initiated by the Nazi’s during World War II. While exact details are a matter of historical debate, it is widely held that the Russians captured numerous documents and records held by Adolph Hitler‘s infamous Nazi Occult Bureau, after the fall of the Third Reich. Other documents partial and complete, became the property of various allied intelligence services who elected to study them further in the ensuing years or in some cases, totally ignore their potential.

When the CIA learned of these studies the obvious question was, ‘Do we have such a potential?’ At this juncture, the United States did not have such a capability, nor had they ever really considered it−until now. If all these other “agencies” are involved, then why we not involved? It was clear that the principal intelligence agency for the United States needed to “catch up” to the intelligence collection efforts of the others−at least in this “alternative” method of gathering intelligence.

Late in 1972, CIA scientist Sidney Gottlieb, Chief of the Technical Services Division procured a rather large monetary endowment to initiate the research project that began it all. If the Soviets, and the others were as heavily involved in this research as was being reported − the National Security of the United States could be in jeopardy. Probably, the simple notion that this “eerie capability” might really be out there; and the possibility that we could do it as well, almost certainly drove the CIA’s decision process. You have to admit−it does peek one’s curiosity.

Stanford Research Institute International (SRI) in Palo Alto, California ultimately became the proving ground for what was to eventually be one of the intelligence services’ most controversial, misunderstood and often feared Special Access Programs. The two men initially charged with responsibility to oversee this testing and evaluation program were Russell Targ and Harold Puthoff, Ph.D.; both laser physicists working at SRI.

In my opinion, it is Targ and Puthoff who are clearly the early heroes in all of this. These two men (with others) risked their professional reputations to test and evaluate the possibility that human beings can transcend space and time for the purpose of “viewing” persons, places and things, remote in space and time, and collect useable intelligence information on the same.

Certainly the vast majority of their colleagues would have loved it if this federally sponsored project had consumed its funding and six years of study only to conclude that there was nothing to it−that it was all worthless and the project should be abandoned. However, this was not the case; instead, the answer was just quite the opposite, there was something to this. This phenomenon was credible, it was measurable and definable and trainable. It was certainly not one hundred percent accurate, but then again, neither was anything else in the intelligence collection assets, they all had their limitations.

As long as one understood the limits of the technology, then the technology could be employed as another collector of information − another provider of ‘pieces’ of the jigsaw puzzle that was truth in the espionage game. In short, the CIA was handed a new intelligence collection methodology − psychic spies.

To digress briefly, a New York City artist, author and gifted natural psychic, Ingo Swann became one of Dr. Puthoff’s first test subjects. According to Mr. Swann, he initially participated in a number of pioneering experiments performed under the auspices of the American Society for Psychical Research. Upon being recruited into the project, Mr. Swann worked with Dr. Hal Puthoff at SRI-International’s Radio Physics Laboratory in Menlo Park, California. It was here that Puthoff and Swann−and a number of others−conducted a series of ever-more sophisticated experiments, developing the protocol or structure they ultimately christened “Remote Viewing,” opting for this term over the much debated label of “Remote Sensing.”

According to Mr. Swann he was tasked by the CIA to train ‘others’ in the art and science of Remote Viewing, men who he claimed were bizarre in their manner, mechanistic and cold in their approach to learning Remote Viewing. In a sense, they were there for the training, and then they were gone, never to be seen or heard of again. I use this as one evidence that other Remote Viewing elements existed in the government intelligence agencies.

I cannot accept in any way the notion that only one Remote Viewing program existed; this would go against all philosophies and practices within the military and government intelligence agencies to ‘never put all of your eggs in one basket.’ Who would spend tens of millions of dollars on a program that existed in one place and had only one life to live−I assure you, nobody in the intelligence community.

Recognizing the potential for controversy and public ridicule (if ever discovered), the CIA did what it has always done − distance itself in word and deed from the project. There is an old adage in ‘the community’ that I continually struggled with, ‘Always keep someone between you and the potential problem.’ Therefore, the project(s) was handed off to the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), under the program code name ‘Grill Flame.’


GRILL-FLAME

from Whale Website

Major Edward Dames, formerly with the Pentagon’s Defense Intelligence Agency until 1992, was a long-serving member of the highly classified operation GRILL-FLAME, a program that focused on some of the more bizarre possibilities of intelligence gathering and remote interrogation.

Known as “remote viewers,” GRILL-FLAME personnel possessed a marked psychic ability that was put to use “penetrating” designated targets and gathering important intelligence on significant figures. The program operated with two teams: one working out of the top secret NSA facility at Fort George Meade in Maryland, and the other at SRI. Results are said to have been exemplary.

Following the Oliver North debacle, the Secretary of Defense officially terminated GRILL-FLAME, fearing bad publicity if the program were to become known to the public. The leading members of the project — including Dames — immediately relocated to the privately owned and newly formed Psi-Tech, and continue their work to this day, operating under government contract.

In the course of his work, Dames was (and remains) close to many the leading figures and proponents anti-personnel electromagnetic weapons, especially those that operate in the neurological field. During NBC’s “The Other Side” program, Dames stated that “The U.S. Government has an electronic device which could implant thoughts in people.” He refused to comment further. The program was broadcast during April 1995.


It is assumed that the other programs continued to thrive under the oversight and administration of other military services and intelligence agencies. However, the Army’s program, which was originally begun as a counter-intelligence effort was allegedly doing so well that its mission was destined to morph into something else.

The original mission was to evaluate through ‘reverse engineering’ how vulnerable to ‘psychic spying’ U.S. intelligence agencies and their secrets were. This was done to such a degree of accuracy that Department of Defense and Army officials decided to change the emphasis from assessing friendly vulnerabilities to actively collecting intelligence information against America’s Cold War adversaries. Unfortunately, but expectedly, the Remote Viewers had their detractors among many generals, such as Major General Bill Odom, and later Lieutenant General Harry Soyster; upper-level bureaucrats in the Department of Defense and the CIA, and politicians within the White House, Congress and the Senate.

Allegedly, by 1980 all of the Remote Viewing programs were suffering from a lack of popular support. The Army program lost all its funding, lacked any permanent home and was destined for extinction. Several sources within the intelligence community; third parties who either knew of the Remote Viewing programs, or had some level of oversight relative to them, indicated to me that Remote Viewing was not the target−rather is was the entire direction some elements of the intelligence services were taking.

During this era, 1978-1980, the military was in pursuit of such things as ‘The Golden Sphere Concept,’ (the quest for advanced human performance potentials), or the Task Force Delta−Concept Paper, the First Earth Battalion and the Warrior Monk’s Vision, sponsored by Lieutenant Colonel James B. Channon, Colonel Mike Malone and a host of others. Again, not to impugn the work of these men and others, it was simply becoming too far out on the fringe for the comfort of a large number of people.

It could be said that the envelope was being pressed too far, too fast, especially for people who felt that careers could be lost over this kind of project. It didn’t really matter how you expressed it or explained it−this was the application of what the larger percentage of the military and civilian population would call, ‘the paranormal.’ As a sort of ‘knee jerk’ response to it all, many sought to squash anything that resembled unconventional approaches to leadership, tactics, strategy, intelligence collection and the like − Remote Viewing would become collateral damage in the quest to trim the fringe efforts.

Despite everyone’s sudden interest to burn witches, Major General Bert Stubblebine, Commander of the U. S. Army’s Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM), took a personal and active interest in the program. INSCOM was a Washington D.C. based unit. At the time, it existed in an old building complex near the Headquarters for 3rd Army (The Ceremonial Old Guard), and eventually ended up in a new location at Fort Belvoir, Virginia.

In 1983, General Stubblebine directed that the Remote Viewing program be re-designated under a new code name, ‘Center Lane’ and be called the ‘INSCOM Center Lane Program.’ Under this umbrella, General Stubblebine could fund the program directly from INSCOM’s budget without the requirement to justify a budget from any outside agencies or through the Deputy Chief of Staff for Intelligence, the Army’s ranking intelligence officer.

Funding the Remote Viewing project in this way also meant that other units and projects within INSCOM would have to pay the bill−not a good thing when funding is tight across the board in the military. Most commanders would willingly cut something as controversial as Remote Viewing in favor of having more to spend on other more overt and successful projects. This approach sewed seeds of despair throughout INSCOM, and of course met with opposition within his command at the subordinate level as well as with many of his colleagues and superiors.

I have to say that this man, General Stubblebine was another of the unsung heroes of this phenomenon. You see little of him now, and hear him even less. He is a man who trusted much, believed in human possibility and potential and was willing to sacrifice himself to promote the notion that we are indeed more than the physical. Many who knew him before and after the service betrayed him in word and deed−an unforgivable tragedy. Had it not been for General Stubblebine, Remote Viewing may not have lived long enough for the rest of us to be writing, talking about, or teaching it at all.

Fortunately, the SRI team had developed a prototype, ‘improved’ version of Remote Viewing known as “Coordinate Remote Viewing.” The term ‘Coordinate Remote Viewing‘ derived from the early assignment of targeting ‘coordinates’ using latitude and longitude. As the Remote Viewer’s continued to develop ever increasingly accurate information about the targets−the scientists reevaluated the use of latitude and longitude−assuming the Viewer’s had memorized the globe and were to a degree using the latitude and longitude ‘coordinates’ to locate portions of the globe through memory.

It was suspected that if they were indeed remembering a place on the face of the earth based solely on its physical location, then their descriptions of ‘perceived’ basic textures, colors, temperatures, dimensional aspects, et cetera of the target were not really due to Remote Viewing skills−they were simply working on memory. In reality, this was not the case, but the scientists did what they were supposed to do−suspect and inspect everything in accordance with scientific protocols.

Most of us never practice science−we merely become compilers and communicators of it. Most in this genre of work like to call themselves parapsychologists, and that is a grave mistake. In the quest for truth in Remote Viewing, there were no real parapsychologists as they are nothing more than individuals masquerading as scientists, alleging they can prove Remote Viewing, mind reading, telekinesis, psychokinesis and a host of other paranormal mysteries.

Many reputable authors, scientists and certainly skeptics refer to parapsychologists as pseudo-scientists, meaning they espouse a system of methods and assumptions they erroneously regards as scientific−I am very pleased to say this was not the case at SRI. Had SRI and those scientists affiliated with the project not worked completely and thoroughly under the protocols of their field, the door for skeptical analysis would have been left wide open. It was, and remains the scientific procedure used to evaluate and develop this protocol of Remote Viewing that has kept it from the pseudo-skeptic wolves all these years.

A note on skeptics at this point, because I feel it is critical that the reader have a clear understanding of who is debunking this work and exactly what their ‘scientific’ background is or isn’t and what motivates their skepticism. I have been interviewed several hundred times on radio and probably fifty times on television all over the world. In about twenty percent of those interviews and appearances I’ve had the distinct pleasure of having a counter position representative from the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal, (CSICOPs) or some other ‘skeptical’ committee. I agree with Dr. Raymond Moody‘s description of these men, as he likens them to the hecklers of nightclub comedians−that is to say, what they really crave is not excellence in science, but more attention for themselves.

Most self-proclaimed skeptics are not skeptics at all. They are ideologists who think they have the answers. The ideology they espouse is known as scientism, the belief that the methods and assumptions of the natural sciences are the only ones appropriate for the pursuit of knowledge. Scientism is an open value judgment that other disciplines conform their techniques of investigation to those of the physical and biological sciences.

These ‘skeptics’ are in fact not interested in science; rather, they are fueling some sort of social movement against the possibility and promise of humanity. Knowing what they espouse, consider this fact: that if it Remote Viewing cannot be explained by science (their science), then it cannot exist at all, it must be a hoax or at best wishful thinking, certainly a waste of taxpayers money. These skeptics openly use electricity when there is not a physicist on the planet who can explain in anything but theoretical terms how electricity travels along a copper wire.

The scientists at SRI could not tell you how Remote Viewing works, not really, they can theorize and that has been the only ‘ah ha,’ for skeptics − the same people who accept the unexplained movement of electricity because it conveniences them. I would be a lot more impressed if they lived like Ted Kazinski and then argued what cannot be explained in the realm of scientism. Thank God for the real scientists at SRI.

It would be simplistic to expect the history of something once highly classified − hidden from the reality of the masses − something that is eventually perceived through the senses to keep an exact pace with the revealed history of science and recall. In the Pirates of Penzance and Call Me Madam, there are famous duets that combine completely different tunes, sung simultaneously without confusing the singers. The histories of the art and science of Remote Viewing are much like this: their rhythms have matched each other closely, but they started on different notes and beats and sustained complementary but contrasting melodies. Again, thank God, for the real scientists of SRI who understood this notion, and who pressed the boundaries of human possibility beyond all expectation.

Now back to the history−after considering a number of options, the ‘coordinate system’ was revised to use the random assignment of numbers to represent the ‘concept’ (or thought form) of the target; hence, the term Coordinate Remote Viewing. For the reader to learn more about what all of this means, you will really need to take a course in Remote Viewing, as this theory it is a large segment of the lecture, and is well outside the scope of this essay.

Around the time of Center Lane’s debut, the Army and SRI signed a training contract, which led to five military and Department of Defense (DOD) civilian personnel being trained in the new Remote Viewing technique at SRI facilities. In 1986, INSCOM transferred the unit to DIA, under the Directorate of Science and technology and changed its code name to “Sun Streak.” Early in the 1990s, it went through yet another code name change−this time to “Star Gate,” the name by which it became known to world when the program was declassified in 1995.

During its lifetime, the Remote Viewing unit collected intelligence against a broad range of targets: strategic missile forces, political leaders−theirs and ours, counter narcotics operations, research and development facilities, hostage situations, military weapons systems, secret installations, technology developments, terrorist groups; the list was staggering, and the successes were many−as were the failures. Failures yes, sometimes with limited useable results, yes. Nevertheless, consider what we are talking about.

We are talking about a military Remote Viewer sitting alone or with a monitor and entering an altered state of consciousness. In this condition, the Viewer copies a set of randomly assigned numbers (the coordinates), that represent the ‘concept of the target in the mind of the collective unconscious. Then, using the protocols of the process, the Viewer begins detecting and decoding relevant visual and verbal sensory data pertaining to the target; and does this with an accuracy level averaging thirty to thirty-five percent−from absolutely nothing. Even on a bad day, this innate ability within each of us−is nothing but spectacular!

In 1995, Congress directed that CIA take back responsibility for the program from DIA, DS-T. This was principally due to the fact that Psychic Warrior: Inside the CIA’s Star Gate Program, was being printed by St. Martin’s Press despite the efforts of the agency and former members of the unit to stop the publication. The CIA was concerned, a book is considered durable media and will be around for a long time, and even though this was not the first book on Remote Viewing, it was the first book written by a psychic spy who was linking Remote Viewing to the military and to the CIA − now that was cause for concern. The CIA knew it was going to be spread all over the media−even more than it was already being spread.

Historically, when there is controversy in the wind, the agency exercises its right to opt out at the most opportune moment. When this option fails, usually due to a timing error−then the only thing to do is tell your version of the story first. What followed was an extremely well executed media blitz, which included Ted Kopel, Larry King and a variety of major new papers across the country and in Europe.

What Americans should be asking themselves at this point is,

“Why would the CIA make a decision to tell the people of the world about this program?”

What purpose did it serve? Were they suddenly afraid that the autobiographical Psychic Warrior was going to steer you in the wrong direction? Did they feel that they needed to make sure you knew the truth, first, from them? Let the reader be the judge.

Later that year, under the cover of being an “objective” study by the American Institutes for Research (AIR), a reputable Washington DC think tank − the CIA commissioned the services of one of the most well-known ‘scientific skeptics’ in the country. The final report was designed to skew the assessment of the accuracy and usability of intelligence from the Remote Viewing program to such a degree that the “program” after twenty plus years of use, would be deemed as “totally useless” as an intelligence collection resource.

In mid-1995, the program was cancelled and two weeks before Psychic Warrior hit the bookshelves the program was disbanded and the buildings were bulldozed and hauled away. Coincidence−I don’t think so−the impact of a writer’s work often exceeds his intention. However, the CIA did conveniently keep for itself all the personnel spaces that were transferred from DIA, DS-T, which is additional evidence to fuel the suspicion that the program lives on in all of it original service variations. As I said early in this history, the intelligence community does not place all of its eggs in one basket.

The CIA would never have left an entire collection methodology open to the potential destruction of one rogue who might write a book about it. Rather, they would keep the technology safe via a standard process of compartmentalization. If one cell is compromised, then all others would merely go deeper black. The government will never abandon Remote Viewing − it proved far too valuable for the money it cost. What it will do, is make sure that it never makes the mistake again of letting such a controversial and potentially far reaching technology raise to the surface, watch it more closely and watch who you train to do it.

Therein ends the history −assuming that if you read this far− you really needed one. What is truly significant here, is that you move past all of this, and discover what Remote Viewing is now, and what it can be in the future. As I said to you in the beginning, there are many variations of this story and there always will be. I’m reminded of Kant’s intuition, and scientific reliance on the senses he called ‘Gestalt theory’ or isomorphism. This theory prompted him to maintain that, ‘Truth is whatever makes you live your life better.

‘Only the truth which edifies is truth.’

Remote Viewing is truth! It is an empowering art and science that will open the possibilities within you, creating doorways to levels of understanding never thought attainable. Accept the possibility that you are more than the physical, learn to transcend space and time to view persons places and things remote in space and time−and the know you are more than the physical.

When people stop believing in something, they do not believe in nothing; they believe in everything − never stop believing in you. Seek truth, find knowledge − and through the art and science of Remote Viewing − become wisdom.

Source

Fritz Springmeier Interview – on The Illuminati and Mind Control Slavery

You may have heard about the Illuminati through history or in the music business, but do you really know what it means? It’s a long story, but here Fritz Springmeier tells his part about the story:

Wayne Morris:

Good morning, welcome to the International Connection. This is show #35 in the radio series on Mind Control and over the next few shows we are going to be talking to Fritz Springmeier and Cisco Wheeler, co-authors of the “Illuminati Formula Used to Create an Undetectable Total Mind Control Slave” and “Deeper Insights“, books about trauma based conditioning mind control. Fritz is a researcher about the Illuminati and minister to mind control victims. Cisco Wheeler says she is from a generational Illuminati family and that trauma-based mind control was perpetrated against her from birth. We will hear the interview with Cisco in a couple of weeks, and today we are going to hear an interview with Fritz Springmeier. Fritz talks about the Illuminati families and how they have used mind control to consolidate their power throughout history. You are listening to CKLN 88.1 FM.

I am speaking with Fritz Springmeier author, lecturer and minister to mind control survivors. Welcome to the show Fritz.

Fritz Springmeier:

Thank you and hello to all you listeners out there in radioland. I encourage you to participate with our program today because we are going to be speaking about some important things that affect your life and will affect the lives of your grandchildren.

Wayne Morris:

I would like to start off with asking you how you first came across the information about government mind control.

Fritz Springmeier:

Government mind control overlaps with many other things – it overlaps with a higher government and a secret world government called the Illuminati. As I investigated the Illuminati I had to also learn about their front that they operate. They hide behind the veil of National Security. They use our patriotism against us and make us think that for our own interest, for our own security of our own nations, that we have to subject ourselves to all the secrecy that they impose upon us.

Wayne Morris:

Did you come across all the information about mind control through your research into the Illuminati, or vice versa?

Fritz Springmeier:

Yes, through the Illuminati. That’s not to say that I hadn’t been watching the government too, but a lot of what we see out front is just that – it’s a front and if we really want to understand what’s going on, we have to look behind that front.

Wayne Morris:

Maybe you could explain to our listeners, to your understanding, who are the Illuminati?

Fritz Springmeier:

The Illuminati are the movers and shakers of the world. They are an elite group of bloodlines – I call these tribes or families – there are 13 major bloodlines. They are what are called “generational satanists”. That means that they have practiced their secret witchcraft for many centuries and they have passed their religion down from one generation to the next. They lead double lives. They have one life that the world sees and then they have a hidden life that the world doesn’t see. There have been very few people that have been able to break through the secrecy. They have taken secrecy to a fine art that I would never have believed that anyone could achieve until I started getting into this, and there have been very few people over the years that have broken through that secrecy at all. There was a man named John Robison who wrote Proofs of a Conspiracy against all the religions and governments in Europe carried on in the secret meetings of the Freemasons, the Illuminati and reading societies. That came out in 1798 and the Bavarian government, by raiding several safe houses of the Illuminati, captured original Illuminati documents back at that time period which were bound and sent out to all the governments entitled: “Die Originalschriften des Illuminatens Ordens” (sp?) as the German title the Bavarian government gave it.

But in modern times there have been very few people that have been able to talk about the Illuminati as it exists today, and that’s been my job. To bring to the world who these people are, what their traditions are, what they are doing, everything about them. The reason I am giving a longer version here to your question is that when someone asks who or what are the Illuminati, they do not think like we do. People often times interpret things around them in terms of how they themselves think or their own world view. If you want to understand the Illuminati, you have to understand that these people do not think like you or I.

In just one area alone, that is a large percentage of these people are programmed multiple personalities and just that in itself creates a whole different thinking pattern from those of us who are not multiple.

Wayne Morris:

When you say the Illuminati, is this the same group that is documented that Adam Weishaupt had started back in 1776 in Bavaria? Is this the same group?

Fritz Springmeier:

It’s the same group. He actually didn’t start the organization, it goes way back. These are oligarchical families that are extremely powerful and if you go back in history and ask yourself the question, “when did the elite, powerful, oligarchical families ever give up their power?” You can’t find any point in history. These are the families that – some of these bloodlines go clear back to Nimrod. The Rothschild secret genealogy that they have secretly written down through the centuries, traces their genealogy back to Nimrod. These people were the ones that controlled the mystery religions. There was a supreme council that sat over all of these mystery religions of the ancient world. They were an extremely powerful priesthood, and they chose to go underground for many years and continue working behind the scenes. But they never left.

At the end of WWII there was a committee that was sent out throughout Europe to do a study of all of the churches that had been destroyed by the war, and they discovered that in most of these Christian churches (80%) they found that where the Christian alter had been, when these churches had been destroyed, underneath these alters were pagan alters that had been uncovered. So what you have is that a lot of these cathedrals were built on lay lines that were very powerful occult spiritual points and on after hours these churches were used for what we would call satanic rituals. So this has been going on secretly for many centuries.

Wayne Morris:

And you are saying that the Illuminati are responsible for infiltrating these churches?

Fritz Springmeier:

These are our movers and shakers, very powerful bloodlines. For instance, one of these bloodlines includes all of your royal families of Europe. They are the people that have been in control. If you look at a lot of these nation states, you will notice that at the head of their church are their kings and queens.

Wayne Morris:

You mentioned there are 13 families in the generations of the Illuminati families? Can you name them?

Fritz Springmeier:

I came out with a book that was specifically designed to go family by family and discuss them. The top 13 bloodlines are the Astors, Bundy, Collins, Dupont, Freeman, Kennedy, Leigh, Onassis, Rockefellers, Rothschild, Russell … then there is a 13th bloodline which is the Merovingian bloodline. I just simple call it the 13th and then there is the Van Duyne Illuminati bloodline. The 13th bloodline, the Merovingian, is extremely important. It includes the royal families of Europe. In my Volume I book which covers the Top Thirteen Illuminati Bloodlines, that’s the title to it, I don’t go into the Merovingian bloodline so much because there came out a trilogy of books, “The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail” and two other books by their authors – Baigent, Leigh and Lincoln – which is so good in discussing this bloodline that wasn’t any real reason for me to go into it.

For instance Prince Charles would be part of that. If you look at Prince Charles, you will notice in his genealogy he is related to our Presidents Washington, Jefferson, Madison, both of the Harrisons, Tyler, Taylor, George Bush. Bush’s vice president, Dan Quayle, was also related to the royal family. Prince Charles is also related to Mrs. Woodrow Wilson. Here in the USA the concept is that we have all of these individuals who have been selected to run this country who are unrelated to each other — and yet it is quite the contrary.

I have been told when they dedicated George Bush’s library in Texas recently, that President Carter mentioned that he was reading a recently published book about the Presidents being somehow related to each other.

Wayne Morris:

When did you first realize the existence of the Illuminati? What information came your way to spark your interest?

Fritz Springmeier:

Everybody has probably heard of Jehovah’s Witnesses and how they would go out and knock on people’s doors. I was the opposite. I was a Christian missionary to bring Jehovah’s Witnesses to Christ and I was getting tired of working with these little Jehovah’s Witnesses on the street, and I was praying to God to be given the power to decapitate the authoritarian organization that is over these Jehovah’s Witnesses. At that point, I got my prayer answered. I got this confidential information that the heads of the Watchtower Society were collaborating with the heads of the Latter Day Saints church. That information totally changed my life. I had bumped into the Illuminati and their mind control, and I am not to single out the Watchtower Society and the Mormon church because I found out that their infiltration and control is pretty well right across the whole spectrum. Your Christian organizations in general have been infiltrated and controlled from behind the scenes.

This is when I first bumped into the Illuminati. I had learned about 20 years previous to this what a lot of people are already aware of about the Council of Foreign Relations, Trilaterial Commission and these types of groups, the Bilderbergers – but there is a whole other level to things. When I started getting into reading, researching and trying to help people that wanted out of the Illuminati to get out – I started getting in at that level. Then I had to work with the mind control. One thing led to another.

Wayne Morris:

What is the relationship of the groups you just mentioned to the Illuminati?

Fritz Springmeier:

There are a lot of groups around the world that are making decisions that are controlling things from behind the scenes and these particular groups are fronts for the Illuminati. Not fronts in the sense that they have no actual purpose, they serve a purpose. But there is a hidden level of control back behind them.

Wayne Morris:

In terms of the Illuminati families and the whole organization itself, what are their goals? Why have they infiltrated so many of these organizations?

Fritz Springmeier:

Ultimately it’s to bring in what people have termed the New World Order with a man who will hold the world’s attention and carry the title The Antichrist. That’s the ultimate goal and I am not trying to wax religious on people but that’s just the simple fact. When you get into deprogramming people you will see that a lot of the things they have been programmed to do tie in with a very sophisticated plan to unify the world under the reign of the Antichrist.

Wayne Morris:

You mentioned that the Illuminati group has used mind control to further their goals. How did you first come into this? You have been working with your partner, Cisco Wheeler, who I understand was an Illuminati mind control victim. How did you first meet and realize what was going on there?

Fritz Springmeier:

She was trying to break free of her mind control. What I stumbled upon was, at least in my opinion, the greatest slavery involved in all history. You had four high level Illuminati women who had been teamed together. They had all become Christians and were trying to break free and had become a support system for each other. Here I was a researcher of the Illuminati, there’s a lot to try and explain. When you are under the mind control, there is a lot of programming not to reveal the secrets. It is very difficult for someone who has been in the Illuminati and received their standard mind control to not divulge what is going on, so it made it much easier to work with me that I had already done my homework, and they knew I was going to understand what they were talking about. They didn’t have to say a lot to communicate certain things, because I was already aware and that saved them from a lot of the grief from the program kicking in for having talked too much.

Cisco was part of this group attempting to escape the mind control, and I got involved in their lives and did what I could to help them. I brought Cisco out of the Illuminati and in return my learning curve about the Illuminati was greatly increased because I was given inside information from these people and a number of other people. Like I say, trying to understand the secret organization, the secret bloodlines is very difficult, because one has to stand outside of one’s own culture and own way of thinking and understand these people as they think, and they do not think like we do. Being able to work with these people who were in the Illuminati was very valuable.

Wayne Morris:

Because they have used mind control techniques on their own family members throughout the years?

Fritz Springmeier:

Oh yes. They have been carrying out this mind control on their own people as well as others for centuries and this has all been a very closely guarded secret. It’s one of the reasons why they have been able to carry out so much to implement this New World Order without people being able to figure out there is such a thing as a worldwide unified conspiracy. They are very skilled in knowing how to bring things about so they appear natural.

Wayne Morris:

What is the purpose of them using mind control on their own family members?

Fritz Springmeier:

It’s really essential. If you are going to participate in the Illuminati secret life, being a programmed multiple is basic. There are a few in the Illuminati who aren’t programmed multiples, but considering what one has to participate in. You’ve got a number of standard rituals involved – St. Weinbald, St. Agnes, Grand Climax, Walpurgis, Beltane, all your solstices and equinoxes, Lamas, All Hallow’s Eve, High Grand Climax — all of these standard rituals. These rituals are very horrific. They involved human sacrifice. Sacrifices of babies on the High Grand Climax. On various Sabbats you’ve got a young female or a male being sacrificed.

This is not something that the normal mind is going to be able to handle. The mind control and the creation of multiple personalities where you get a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde effect – is very crucial to this thing continuing from generation to generation.

Wayne Morris:

They really use the multiple personalities to facilitate this double life that they have to lead … before we get into the techniques that they use for mind control and the details of that, you mentioned they seem to have a belief system as well. Could you talk about that?

Fritz Springmeier:

The Illuminati is the continuation of the Mystery Religions and as someone comes an adept of the Illuminati they have to learn a whole series of paths. They give the different types of cult knowledge names from the 12 Apostles plus the 13th is called the Holy Grail. These men and women become very skilled in occult knowledge and I am not sure how much I should go into that, but I guess what I am trying to say is that they will be trained in alchemy, in Indian sorcery, Druidism, Enochian magik, Gnosticism, Hermetic magik, cabbalism, Plato, Sufism – they will know all the different branches of occult systems.

Wayne Morris:

How do they use that information? Do they incorporate elements of all of those occult belief systems into their own?

Fritz Springmeier:

It all ties in together. The idea is to amass occult power to yourself and that’s the reason why the Collins family was brought into the top 13 bloodlines. Of course the Merovingian Dynasty had a lot of magik power and a lot of political power, but the Collins family which was Scottish had extremely powerful occult powers so it was brought in to be one of the top occult lines because they were such powerful black magicians. Cabbalism and the 26 path workings – this is all very important in the work that they do, and it all ties in with the mind control too. But most of the therapists out there are secular or approach it from the secular angle, and as they deal with these mind control victims’ programming, they don’t touch on the spiritual aspect. What I am trying to say is that their religious beliefs can’t be separated from the mind control. It is an integral part of that.

Wayne Morris:

Do the Illuminati worship a single being such as Lucifer?

Fritz Springmeier:

You’ve got different levels in which people operate within the Illuminati. There is the anarchy level which is your common witchcraft coven, and then you’ve got your hierarchy level. On the anarchy level there are thousands and thousands of covens. I have listed the addresses and names of hundreds of these in one of my books. These covens are very eclectic. They can have their own traditions, their own rituals. There is a wide variety of practices on the anarchy level … that’s what it looks like, is total anarchy. One doesn’t see any connection.

Above that is your hierarchy level where you would have Asmodeus, your Grand Masters, and Mothers of Darkness, Grandmothers, Granddaughters. If you are a programmed multiple, you can function at many different levels. You can have one personality in this coven, and another personality in that coven and this personality that is in the Masonic Lodge, and another in this hierarchy ceremony, another participating in another Satanic ritual. It is very broken up. One of the reasons why it is not easy to answer your question is basically everything we understood about human behaviour and how to gauge or judge people is obsolete. The mind control, by creating programmed multiple personalities, has made all of our ways of judging people obsolete.

Within the Illuminati the supreme goal is to balance their good deeds with their bad deeds, they are dualists. They are Luciferians at the highest level. That’s why your greatest philanthropist will very often be your highest ranking satanist. What they are trying to do with their philanthropy is self serving when you actually look at it. It’s not as generous as it appears. They are trying to do good deeds and balance those with their bad deeds, they believe in balance in their religion. It’s a gnostic luciferianism.

Wayne Morris:

I think it might be difficult for the people listening to understand how somebody could be in public doing good deeds and having a good public image, and at the same time having this very dark side. I don’t know if you have read the recent Judith Spencer book, “Satan’s High Priest”. It really illustrates how that works very clearly. It’s a true story about one particular satanic cult, a high priest, and his rise to that.

Fritz Springmeier:

No I haven’t read the book, but I am glad that you brought that out to the listeners. The way that someone can begin to see the Illuminati is to start looking at how these people are above the wars and the rest of what we have to suffer. For instance Pierre Samuel Dupont, during the French Revolution, all kinds of people around Pierre lost their heads and yet, for some strange reason, Samuel Dupont managed to “keep his head” when so many hundreds of people were losing theirs to the guillotine. One person who was influential in protecting him was Necker’s daughter, Madame Germaine Destael. She ran a cat-house, but anyway she was intimate friends with St. Simon and St. Simon’s disciples were saying at that point in time in the early 1800’s that the target date for the New World Order would be the year 2000.

Another example in history, and I brought this out in the Top 13 Illuminati Bloodlines book, is when the U.S. went to war right after Pearl Harbor, within a few days, President Roosevelt came out with a Presidential Decree which was a semi-secret amendment to the Trading with the Enemy Act, and it made it legal for certain people to trade with the enemy, if they were given permission by the American Secretary of the Treasury who at that time was Hans Morgenthale. I copied the paper work out of the Federal Code of Regulations. They actually have this Presidential Decree where if he wanted to exempt somebody, he could allow them to trade with the enemy. Who were the people that were given that privilege? Rockefellers and Onassis, both of them Illuminati kingpins. During WWII every ship that was a Greek merchant ship was sunk during the War by one side or the other. Something happened and essentially all of the Greek shippers lost their vessels. There was one Greek shipper, Aristotle Onassis, who didn’t lose a single ship and his vessels sailed through all the war zones. None of the Allies or the Axis powers ever attacked his ships. For something like that to happen, you have to have full collaboration at the highest level. You see these kinds of things going like – Pierre Samuel Dupont, Aristotle Onassis. Then you are looking at somebody who is Illuminati. They sit above all these conflicts that they create for all the common people.

Wayne Morris:

This way of bypassing trading with the enemy regulations, how has this been utilized with regard to WWII or the Bolshevik revolution for that matter?

Fritz Springmeier:

In fact there is an entire book out – I think the title is “Trading with the Enemy”, it came out in 1983 and answers your question. Rockefeller Standard Oil shipped gas and oil to Spain which then piped it directly to the Nazis. The Allies knew that Rockefeller was supplying the Germans. That prolonged the War a couple of year. But you don’t hear about this by establishment historians. There was a lot of important trading during WWII was necessary to sustain the Nazi war machine.

And you mentioned the Bolshevik revolution. Again you will see there was a lot of finances sent from, as you are probably well aware and some listeners are aware, from Kuhn Laib (sp) and Company and some of these other llumaniti people, and that money was used by the Bolsheviks to finance the revolution. There were a lot of other agreements made at that time and things done to help them out. There is a lot going on behind the scenes.

Wayne Morris:

It seems like they are promoting a strategy of tension where they are funding both sides and basically profiting from the resultant conflicts that they are fomenting.

Fritz Springmeier:

One could go on and on. For instance Heinrich Mueller who was head of the Gestapo – you will notice that at one point he took an old Jewish family and he himself had to personally carry their suitcases to his own car and when he got them to the Swiss border, he carried their suitcases. The Swiss bodyguards by the way, were laughing seeing the head of Gestapo helping an old Jewish family escape Nazi Germany. When the listener out there starts seeing these kinds of things, now that you have heard me talk, you can begin to realize that there is a hidden level out there, way beyond what the common person is allowed to see at that Illuminati level. These are the people who are collaborating behind the scenes where you have Catholics and Protestants and Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormon leaders – you think these people are at each other’s throats – but they are key Illuminati people who are secretly collaborating.

Wayne Morris:

In talking about the Illuminati, I think a number of people may have difficulty believing that there is a Unified Liberal Conspiracy to control the world. Even myself, up until recently, until I started researching into the mind control, I thought the Illuminati was a fictitious group. In doing your research about the Illuminati, what were some of your other sources of information besides the people on the inside that had escaped?

Fritz Springmeier:

My sources, besides my eye witnesses, were interviewing a number of honest law enforcement and private investigators – in fact some of these people are still ongoing friends of mine. Over the years I have studied thousands of books, and thousands of documents which has meant going to special libraries, such as the Genealogical Library at Salt Lake City. I have interviewed and worked with many therapists and I have taken off and travelled to sites where programming is done, where rituals are done, where crimes have been committed. For instance in Washington state, a number of hours from here, there is a full scale replica of Stonehenge. Below this replica of Stonehenge which sits on a hill, is a cemetery a number of feet away and Illuminati rituals are done at that cemetery. That’s an example of a place that I have gone and looked at for myself.

I need to bring in another concept here that is important to research. It’s not all simply just getting a lot of interviews and the facts because the raw facts aren’t going to do it. When I was in college and I was taking counselling, the psychologist who was teaching the class gave some excellent advice. He said, “when you are listening to people or examining a situation, don’t look at the details but look at the process. The details may throw you for a loop because people will lie, they will give contradictory information. Look at the process.” That’s a very good principle. What I have been doing is analyzing a lot of raw data, raw facts and interview information, and I have been putting together a coherent puzzle. That means you have to overlook a lot of disinformation.

Wayne Morris:

In the late seventies there was a certain amount of information about CIA mind control that came out to the public, and I would like to know what you think are the problems inherent in trying to prove the existence of mind control to a general audience through government documentation?

Fritz Springmeier:

The problems with trying to expose things through government documentation are one, the documentation has been destroyed or tampered with and to get the government involved in exposing these things, what you are basically doing is asking a bunch of criminals, that’s what they are even thought they work in government positions, to expose themselves with paperwork. That’s just not the way things work. When we think about the Nazis, they were trying to destroy all traces of their crimes. They tried, they didn’t succeed. That gives me some hope that even though a great percentage of the proof of the mind control in terms of government documentation has been destroyed, I am still convinced that tons of documents still exist. But I think even better than those tons of documents are the living proof we have in the tens of thousands of identified living victims.

The other side to the problem of getting government documents is that then you have to have some way to broadcast that to the public at large and we have a controlled media, and unfortunately the media is very tight with the government. You can really question whether you would ever see our controlled media fully expose to the proper degree the people that need to be exposed.

Wayne Morris:

It seems highly unlikely that the mainstream media is going to be investigating this. It’s more likely to be coming from independent investigation and independent publishers of this information.

Fritz Springmeier:

I would love to see the places where the records are kept broken into and these records exposed, but the only way I can see this happening would be if there was a revolution on the magnitude of what happened in Eastern Europe where Stasi records and things like this were exposed to the light of day.

Wayne Morris:

Do you think a government investigation into the mind control experiments, similar to what has happened with the Tuskegee syphilis and the radiation experiments would actually bring out information?

Fritz Springmeier:

I believe it would bring out information. That’s true. However, for the government to investigate this is like asking the fox how much of a threat he is to chickens. The fox is going to tell us something, enough to satisfy us, but I am real leery about giving the government another chance to push some ulterior agenda. The bottom line is that a government investigation is going to cost us more tax dollars, and I think people sometimes forget that every time they send their government scurrying around doing something that it comes out of their pocketbook.

Wayne Morris:

Do you think there is any benefit though, to society as a whole, in terms of having a government investigation going on, and having the government at least admit they did do these kinds of experiments? Is there any benefit to the people as a whole in trying to expose this?

Fritz Springmeier:

As a whole? The way you ask your question is going to reflect the way I answer. No, it will not. The reason why I say this is that earlier on the US Congress had Rockefeller investigate the CIA. Rockefeller investigate the CIA!?! (Laughs) Of course his investigating committee came up with abuses, they have got to find something wrong, but the thing of it is that it makes Rockefeller look like a good fellow. “Oh look he’s a crusader who is trying to expose the bad guys.” They always throw in an ulterior agenda. If they are going to do something against themselves, they use it as another opportunity to work on some other agenda. If they expose A, B and C about mind control, then they are probably doing it in a way so they are misdirecting people’s attention from their latest technology through an older model that they have discontinued, or something like that. They are going to work in some ulterior agenda that when it’s all said and done, it has actually done a disservice.

Wayne Morris:

How do you think the information about mind control has been kept from public attention for so long?

Fritz Springmeier:

As we mentioned just a little bit earlier, we have a controlled media and in a number of my publications I have gone into detail and showed who is in control of the media, and how these people are Illuminati members or participating in their Illuminati fronts. I document how the Rockefellers, and the Rothschilds and the William Randolph Hearsts – Illuminati kingpins – control the media. I think it’s appropriate a couple of anecdotes.

I was visiting one day with a Christian minister and he was asking me what I did since I worked full time exposing the mind control and helping victims of mind control, and exposing the New World Order’s agenda. I was honest with him, and told him that and in the course of doing that I mentioned something about the controlled media and boy he hit the roof. He went ballistic on me because just prior to becoming a minister he had been an ABC reporter. He said, “there is no control over the media! I was allowed to write and have any stories that I wanted!” I said, “whoa, slow down, let me ask you some questions.” When you were hired, your superior hired you and kept you on because he liked the way you thought and the way you wrote … and likewise his superior liked the way he thought and the way he wrote … and on and on down the line. If anybody had written or thought in ways that weren’t the approved ways of thinking and writing you would have gotten in trouble, wouldn’t you. He said “yes.” I said, that’s it … when I work with victims of mind control they can’t see that they are under programming. As long as they do exactly what the programming asks them to do, they don’t know that they are in programming. The only time that they know that there is any programming there is if they step out and act against it. If you are running with the wind behind your back or if you are in a stream and you are floating down the stream, you don’t notice the current. But when you try to swim upstream is when you really notice the power of the current. So if you as a reporter step out of what their expectations are, that’s when you get clobbered and you realize there is a lot of heavy force behind going against the direction the way they want to go in. He said, “you’re right.” I said if you had written an article that had been contrary to the way your boss thought, you would have been in trouble, wouldn’t you? He said, “yes, you are right, I see your point.”

That’s my point. People don’t notice the control until you start bucking against that control and then you are going to find out how much control there is over our entire society.

Wayne Morris:

It seems that control in the newsrooms is almost at an unspoken level, and often for a lot of reporters it’s an economic motivation as well. The stories that their editors do get accepted, the stories the editors don’t like don’t get accepted and the reporters don’t get paid for it. They very quickly appreciate what their editors are going to accept and print.

Fritz Springmeier:

Exactly.

Wayne Morris:

I would like to talk about the mind control that the Illuminati have used and the techniques therein. What is your understanding of the forms of mind control they have used?

Fritz Springmeier:

The phrase that I like to use is “Total Mind Control” because it totally controls the person – body, soul and spirit. And the common person out there has never really imagined that something so all-encompassing or so horrendous or so totally powerful even exists. The type of mind control the Illuminati use – I think some people think “oh, mind control – television – yeah – subliminals.” No. I am talking about something that is 1000 or 10,000 times more powerful. This mind control is totally undetectable and it totally controls the person and it uses every known technique of controlling a person wrapped up in a sophisticated group package. That’s one of the important things that a lot of people have not emphasized – that it’s not one technique, but what makes this total mind control of the Illuminati so powerful is that it’s a sophisticated group package incorporating all of the known techniques of control. All of these methods have been carefully interwoven. When you listen to someone from an intelligence agency, occasionally they have talked similar to this, where they will say, “we tried such and such a technique but it only worked in 70% of the cases so we couldn’t use it … and we tried this technique and it only worked part of the time.” But what they are not telling you is that if you take a method that works only 70% of the time and match that to another technique that works 60% of the time, and another technique that works 50% of the time and you have 100 techniques wrapped up together like that, you make a package deal that totally locks the victim in to the control.

Wayne Morris:

Can you talk about some of these techniques individually and how they were used as a group package?

Fritz Springmeier:

When I started out to describe to people what was going on, I had files and files. I had about 150 files of different techniques. I was thinking to myself, well I can’t talk about 150 techniques, that’s too overwhelming for people. I thought and realize that all of these techniques broke down into 12 sciences. One of the sciences is the science of trauma and torture. Others is how to use applied drugs to control a person; their ability to use mental states such as hypnosis, dissociation, the trance states; their skill at deceiving people and deceiving the victim themselves. One needs to understand that the victims of the Illuminati mind control do not even know themselves that they are under control. So there is a lot of skill in using fiction and deceit and fronts and covers. There is a science of using spiritual things to control a person. In fact actually that is perhaps one of the major, if not ’the major’ method of controlling a person.

There is a science of using spiritual things to control a person. In fact actually that is perhaps one of the major, if not the major method of controlling a person. One of the things that’s not political popular today for people today in science to admit is that mankind has a spiritual side to them, but humans do have a spiritual side to them and the Illuminati understand how to spiritually control someone. Their understanding of that has boggled my mind. They have only allowed the common people including the Christian people – the crumbs so to speak – even our ministers have only been given the crumbs on how to develop a person spiritually.

Wayne Morris:

And how do you feel they have developed this and gained this knowledge?

Fritz Springmeier:

A lot of this began back in the Sleep Temples of the Egyptians. We go back to your Egyptian priesthood and the Mystery religions – they were already learning at that time how to use electric shock – they used electric eels and other things to electrically shock people. They had already started to learn the use of drugs and herbs to create altered states and to control people. These were secrets though that were very closely guarded by these Illuminati families and their Mystery religion priesthood. But they continued to develop these over the centuries. Another example of a closely guarded secret was the ability to do cranial manipulation. During the Middle Ages and even centuries prior to that, the oligarchical families that controlled the common people had specialists that did torture for the kings, and they kept their secrets about torturing to themselves. One of the things they developed was the ability to do cranial manipulation. You have to be very careful when you start moving the bones of the skull. A lot of people don’t realize that the skull is not a solid bone, but it has sutures between the different parts of it, and you can do very subtle manipulations and move those skull bones. In fact today there is something called cranial osteopathy. These osteopaths are very skilled in using their fingers. That developed from the family of bone-setters who tied back into the occult who had learned the secret occult skills of manipulation.

Wayne Morris:

What has effect has this had in terms of the mind control – the cranial manipulation?

Fritz Springmeier:

Cranial manipulation has been kept an occult secret in occult bloodlines for centuries. And it can be used for good, to heal people. It can be used to change the way the face looks to improve the face, or it can be used for evil, to torture someone or to control their mind. By manipulating the skull you can actually change the way the person thinks to make them more dissociative, or more compliant, or develop their thinking in other ways.

Wayne Morris:

Can you explain how they would start using these techniques, and generally at what age they would start?

Fritz Springmeier:

When a child is conceived, a lot of them – their very birth has been an idea from the start. Somebody who is in the Illuminati conceiving a child in an occult ritual with a woman. It gets very involved as to how they hide their lineages. Let’s put it this way. Not everybody born to mothers are actually the biological children of that mother. There is a lot of switching done at hospitals and so forth. The child’s birth has been planned. While the child is in the fetus, they already begin certain things to test the fetus’ mental abilities and to traumatize that fetus so it will be more dissociated.

Wayne Morris:

How would they do that?

Fritz Springmeier:

A fetus does not like to be poked, does not like substances that taste bad. If a mother eats a lot of sugar they have shown by watching the fetus that these unborn children like the taste of sugar as it diffuses into what the child is getting from the mother. So if you combine a lot of these things that are horrific. If you have a lot of loud noises – and the father is screaming at the mother and throwing her around and abusing the mother, making the mother very upset. Then you’ve got loud music, rock and roll, or screaming or something. You have also given the mother something to eat that tasted really bad to the fetus and you can do a number of things that are going to hit that little unborn child at the same time. It’s going to be overwhelmed, and it’s going to develop its ability to dissociate.

Wayne Morris:

To your awareness, has electricity been used in this regard?

Fritz Springmeier:

Not so much in the traumatization of the fetus. They use that after the child is born. They oftentimes will have a premature birth. It happens in many different ways, but one of the methods they like to use is to have a premature birth because then the child can be traumatized naturally. There are a whole bunch of natural traumas that go along with being premature. Your skin is very sensitive, you get catheters up your behind, and so forth. They want the traumatization to begin very early on because they want somebody who can trance out and dissociate from the pain. You are probably familiar with the Indian fakirs – the holy men in Indian who can walk on coals and stick pins in themselves and sleep on beds of nails. How does it happen? Because they are able to dissociate and go into a trance state, an altered state. The Illuminati want to create individuals who are able to dissociate very well, because that is part of the requirement to have the ability to have a multiple personality.

Wayne Morris:

And that is the purpose of the traumatization – is to create that dissociation?

Fritz Springmeier:

That’s one of the purposes.

Wayne Morris:

What is the importance of dissociation within the total mind control?

Fritz Springmeier:

It’s extremely important. You will hear a lot in recent times about electronic mind control, and that’s being used to divert people away from the more important issue of multiple personality disorder or DID. The ability to create multiple personalities that are programmed is extremely important. It’s why they have the ability to be secret, it’s why they are able to do so much in secret. The electronic mind control – throwing mental ideas into somebody’s brain which are foreign is not that much of a threat. I have worked with quite a few victims of electronic mind control and the majority, if not all of them, are able to recognize that something is being beamed into their heads that is foreign. But when you are dissociated and you have amnesia between yourself and other parts of your mind, you don’t know what you yourself in your entirety are all about. For instance I had a Christian minister who spent some time trying to deprogram – he has come and visited here to work on his programming. Here you have a Christian minister who, horrors of horrors, discovers that he has a dissociated part of his mind which has been functioning within the Illuminati and these other parts of his mind are satanic. Imagine being a man of God and finding out that you have parts of yourself that sacrifice people … (laughs). That’s why this ability to dissociate into multiple personalities is such a dangerous ability.

Wayne Morris:

Maybe you can talk about the nature of dissociation and how that is used for controlling somebody and also, as you mentioned, being not aware of the different identities that are being used for other purposes …

Fritz Springmeier:

People are familiar with dissociation and how the mind has the ability to function on several tracks. For instance, if you are at a party and engrossed in a conversation with somebody and you are focused on what they are saying, and all of a sudden somebody across the room says your name, and your mind immediately switches and goes “oh they are calling me over there”, well that’s one evidence, and there are other ways to realize that the mind is not one monolithic entity but it is broken up into components. While you were engaged in that conversation with somebody, there was one part of your mind which was still listening to other things. It was a dissociated part of the conscious mind; in other words, it was dissociated from the conscious. You weren’t conscious of that part of your mind that was listening to the rest of the conversation but it was.

Hypnosis, trance and dissociation are just different aspects of the same thing. The Illuminati have learned over the centuries how to put people in different mental states and the information is learned in the different states. To access that information best, you need to go back to that particular state. People realize what I am saying because when you get into a particular situation that’s reminiscent of a previous experience, that’s when your memory is best triggered. They go a lot further than just using natural dissociation. They have learned how to create amnesia walls within the mind and basically what they are doing to the mind is the same as what we do to computers. In order to make computers functional they had to figure out some way to section off part of the computer’s memory so the user could not access that memory. It had to nest that memory. You will notice that when you reboot your computer, the computer reboots itself with memory that you weren’t able to access. That memory was dissociated – in human terms I guess you could say there is an amnesia wall there.

They know how to build walls in the mind to mentally section off the mind – and they do this through trauma. If you get a severe enough trauma what the mind will do in order to continue functioning is dissociate that trauma with an amnesia wall. Let’s say you were in war and your best friend had just gotten blown to smithereens by artillery … his guts are lying out. Your mind may build amnesia walls around this event and you may not be able to remember it. So the worse the trauma, the better the amnesia wall.

The Illuminati take a small child about two years old, and they begin traumatizing it with the worst traumas that are imaginable so that they can create these amnesia walls. They find these dissociated pieces of the mind which are just like in a sense floppy disks, then they put in their programming to the dissociated parts of the mind as to what they want that part to become. Some of these parts they make into personalities and they create MPD, DID and then while they are creating these multiple personalities, they are programming them to be exactly what they want them to be.

Wayne Morris:

Before we get into what kinds of things they are used for, maybe we can just go back and talk about how a person is conditioned to be a total mind control slave, and pick it up when the child is born. What happens there in terms of the conditioning.

Fritz Springmeier:

The programmers like to say “this child is a piece of clay”, and they view themselves as the potter’s wheel, of course. They are very skilled in knowing how to take a child and work with that child’s mind to create what they want. We could talk all day about this. One of the aspects we haven’t gotten into yet is their ability to go in and identify – they use EEG’s – backtracking and stepping outside of the Illuminati for a second … You’ve got researchers like Hans Eisneck, who happened to have been born in Germany and other researchers too who studied how your average _______ potentials – these are brainwaves – can be monitored and can be used to see what type of thinking that brain is capable of. You can use EEG’s to determine personality and IQ. They have correlated their ability to study the human brain with EEG’s to John Gittinger’s PAS tests. When a child is born they begin testing its brain to see what is this person’s personality, what type of thinking is this person capable of, what type of career should be plan out for this person. So they take the natural bent of the mind, the natural capabilities of the mind and they work with that. Likewise when they are doing the traumatization and they are splitting the mind, they work with the child’s creativity and what those pieces of the mind think.

Wayne Morris:

Typically at what age do these tests start – the EEG’s and the Personality Assessment Surveys …

Fritz Springmeier:

They do some of it while the child is still a fetus, and after its born they start neonatal behavioral assessment skills, the Bailey Scales and other tests, and within a short time, perhaps by 18 months, they will be doing EEG’s and determining what they want to do. Once they determine what kind of life they want to structure for this person, they begin the mind control to structure the person for that career. This is why people like myself who have a natural intelligence that has never been connected to any of these bloodlines, we have such a hard time out there in the competition because the Illuminati can take a particular child and manipulate things from behind the scenes and open all the right doors for this person, and they can get them the grants and the schooling and everything they need and adding impetus to this person’s career is the mind control that is steering them in that direction too. The end product is you end up with somebody who is an engineer or a lawyer or a politician who is very highly qualified for what they are doing.

Wayne Morris:

Once they have controlled somebody, what kinds of things would they be used to do for the Illuminati?

Fritz Springmeier:

This has not been brought out very well by other people and maybe it’s just simply because they are not aware of it, but the mind control is not just to create somebody who is a sexual slave, but it’s to infiltrate and control society across the board. Understand that if you are going to control something like establishment medicine – you have to have your people in key positions because the weakest link the chain is going to break. You can’t have any weak links. They salt their people throughout society in general, from the gutter to the castles. An example of one group of people that they have created for modern society are stalkers. In my recent book, Deeper Insights Into the Illuminati Formula, I go into how they create stalkers and why they create stalkers.

Let’s say you are trying to control medicine because the establishment medical system brings them in lots of money and the medical establishment is very powerful, you have to have control of the entire spectrum of things – the hospitals, what kind of health care is going to be available, the type of training these doctors are going to get, they have created secret strike forces like the CCHI and the NCHF that keep people in line. All of this requires mind control slaves being salted in throughout the entire system. If you have one weak link – for instance if you have one person who is practicing alternative medicine and you don’t control the judicial system – you are not going to be able to convict, eg. this homeopathic doctor if you don’t control the judicial system. You have to have this vast secret apparatus, and until people understand the mind control, they can’t understand how there could possibly be the type of control that they have.

Wayne Morris:

In order to understand how they are able to control these people that they have put in key positions in society, we do have to talk more about the techniques of mind control, and maybe we can go into that now, of how they are able to effect control over these people. For example, the trauma.

Fritz Springmeier:

The trauma would be used for a whole number of reasons, but at the very basic level when you traumatize somebody to the point where they almost die, or actually to be more specific they actually do “kill” these people but they know exactly how many seconds they can allow them to be killed and still bring them back to life. They manipulate near-death experiences, they have that down to a science. That was the major reason that you had the major concentration camp experiments by Mengele where people were tortured. He belonged to an Illuminati bloodline and was doing Illuminati research for mind control purposes, he did a lot of research on twins. They found out exactly how much trauma you could give different people before you killed them. What that trauma does is it puts the brain back into a survival mode and now I have to get into explaining that the popular concept of the brain being one monolithic brain is real deceptive.

It has been kept very secret but the human brain is actually seven brains. The first brain of the human mind – the medullah and the pons – is called the Reptilian Brain because it thinks like a reptilian. If you are always traumatizing a person, you keep them in their reptilian thinking or their survival based thinking. Survival based thinking has certain characteristics. At the very basic level, the trauma can be used to keep somebody within their survival based thinking. It also creates fear and there is a whole series that spiritually happen to a person when they get caught up in fear.

If you think in terms of blackmail, the listener may remember when he was a child and somebody grabbed your arm and twisted it and said “say uncle” and of course your arm hurt, and you gave in. That’s a very simple type of mind control. The trauma and the torture can be used in a very simple way – if you don’t comply it is going to hurt. Men who are slaves are electroshocked in their genitals. It is very painful. That’s a very simple way of bringing someone in line. Then of course there are ways the trauma is used to split the mind, fracture them into thousands of pieces, create multiple personality disorder. That’s one of the techniques.

Wayne Morris:

Just to stay on the topic of trauma, what is the importance of maintaining that trauma in terms of keeping the conditioning intact and keeping the state of dissociation intact?

Fritz Springmeier:

They want to maintain a high level of trance and dissociative behaviour in the victim, so they like to continue traumatizing the person. As I brought out earlier, there is more involved than just keeping the dissociative level high. Your also trying to maintain the person to stay in the reptilian, survival based thinking; trying to keep them having a spirit of fear controlling their lives, so they don’t slack off. They secretly train the parents of the children who are being programmed on how to abuse their children so they keep their children very dissociative. Not only that, if the children are going to some established religious institute, eg. Catholic church, Episcopalian church, their priests, their clergymen have been trained in how to abuse the children. This is why you have such a big modern day problem within the Catholic church. So many of the priests abusing children and the lawsuits brought against this church, and some people have said they think it is going to financially bankrupt the church – the reason why so much of this is going on is for purposes of mind control.

Wayne Morris:

Have these priests and clergymen been coerced to participate in this, or are they part of these Illuminati families? What is their role?

Fritz Springmeier:

There are a lot of different reasons why someone is a pedophile. One of the problems within the Catholic church is that there haven’t been normal outlets for sexual activity provided for priests and nuns, and then they are given these subversive ways to release their sexuality. Some of them are actually secret satanists and this is part of the reward they receive from a secret coven. There are various reasons as to why – some just go along because that’s what everybody else is doing and it is allowed until people put their foot down and say we are not going to tolerate this. I can talk about a number of cases where people did put their foot down and say we are not going to tolerate this abuse of our child by the clergy, and the hierarchy that should have penalized this person simply promoted them and sent them to some other part of the country. Why they do it? God knows why each person has become an abuser.

Wayne Morris:

Can you explain how the dissociation has been used in terms of programming and the structure of that programming?

Fritz Springmeier:

The victim of the mind control has had their mind split into many personalities, actually far more personalities than what the people in the therapeutic community generally realize. Cisco who I brought out of the Illuminati has very standard programming in many ways, although she has unique features to her system of personalities. She had a very standard grid of 13x13x13 alter personalities. Each one of those personalities has been given a separate history, separate personality which has its own likes and dislikes. What they did was turn what was one person into a whole city of people and the only way the mind of the slave can function is if it relies upon the master to give it stability. Imagine if your mind was a whole series of competing persons, each with their own ideas, likes, dislikes. The only way to bring some order out of the chaos would be to have some controlling entity ordering that chaos. Some of the slaves have reached the point of becoming aware that they are multiples and on the deeper levels they realize that they need the mind control for their minds not to break down into total craziness. Another way of looking at it is – what the Illuminati are doing is creating controlled insanity for these victims of the mind control to endure the horrific trauma that’s given to them, they have to isolate their memories of that trauma and the parts of the mind that have to pick up some of that trauma – some of those parts, in essence, I hate to use the word “crazy”, but they are taking the garbage that’s happening and the mind is shuffling and isolating it. If those walls of dissociation break down, then the other parts of the mind are going to have to deal with a lot of garbage.

Wayne Morris:

Why do you think they needed so many identities to be in place?

Fritz Springmeier:

If you are going to invest the time to create a robot, you are going to incorporate as many capabilities as possible and you want to compartmentalize so everything is secret. One of the reasons why intelligence agencies function so well – eg. CIA – is that they compartmentalize everything. You only “know” on a regional basis. They do the same with these people’s minds. A slave may function on many different levels. He’s got his front – they create the best front possible – his or her everyday life – but then they may want to use that person for drug smuggling, money laundering, carrying messages, performing satanic rituals, producing porn movies, assassinating somebody, spying on somebody – and then you’ve got internal jobs too. Going back to what I said earlier, remembering how the mind has been fractured into many dissociated pieces, and essentially a whole city of people has been made out of those pieces. In order for that city of people to function, you have to have different jobs. You will have some of the older personalities taking care of baby personalities internally in the person’s mind – you have functions – gatekeepers, hierarchy alters that are controlling other alters – a hierarchy of personalities. That’s a whole science in itself – how to structure dissociated parts of the mind.

Wayne Morris:

You mentioned the one structure, 13x13x13 grid. Are there other structures used that you are aware of?

Fritz Springmeier:

There are many different structures. It all depends on the whim and fancy of the programmer as he shatters the victim’s mind, he can reassemble that mind however he wants to. He can use a sphere – they create systems within systems too. A common system within a system is the cabalistic tree of life.

Wayne Morris:

Do you see similarities in the survivors that you have been working with in terms of the structures?

Fritz Springmeier:

Oh yes. That’s one of the things – you can have a therapist in one state, and they will not have know anything about MPD or DID and they will start working with the victim and call another therapist for help and taking notes. The victim will say, “I drew these pictures. I don’t know what they mean.” “I am fascinated with Star Trek (or the Wizard of Oz) (Mickey Mouse)”. The therapist will call another therapist and ask what they make of this. If this other therapist is experienced, they may say “oh hey – I’ve got somebody who is just like that.” All across the country, there are therapists and then people like myself who is a minister working with these people who are running into the same patterns time and time again, the same structures. Like I was saying, working with people who were in the Illuminati, working with people that did the programming itself, is really helping my learning curve too in terms of the structures that are built in.

Another common structure you will see is a lot of mirror imaging, that’s a more of a technique than a structure.

Wayne Morris:

What do you mean by that? The mirroring of an alter?

Fritz Springmeier:

Mirroring of all kinds of things. That’s part of the technique of deceit.

Wayne Morris:

That’s the purpose of using this mirroring, for example if a therapist came across one alter, dealt with, there may have been a mirror of that …

Fritz Springmeier:

A lot of the therapists think they are dealing with a particular personality but they are dealing with its mirror image. The systems are programmed, created so that if somebody starts working with them there are all these defensive mechanisms that are triggered. One of the defensive mechanisms is to have mirror image alters take the place of who the therapist is trying to work with. So the therapist thinks they have done something but they have actually just played games. Mirror images of things within the programming itself so that when one particular personality tries to work on their mind’s programming, the mind is so confusing about what they still internally – that they can’t figure out their own mind.

The best manager is somebody who doesn’t have to spend a lot of time giving instructions to a person. If you are a slave master and you have to be constantly telling that slave what to do, and constantly correcting it, and making sure it’s doing its job, you become a slave to the slave.

What you want to do is create a human robot which will be self-directed and self-correcting so they create hierarchies of alters within the person and one of the things they do is create alter personalities within the person’s mind who think they are the programmer themselves.

So, Ewen Cameron who was a programmer – his victim would have personalities within them that would think they are Ewen Cameron. Therefore they would carry out the abuse of other personalities as they would perceive Ewen Cameron would do it. That’s one use of mirrors. Another use of mirrors is if you are teaming two slaves together, let’s say you and are teamed. I would have personalities in me that think they are you and you would have personalities created in you that think they are me and it would further the binding process.

Wayne Morris:

Generally speaking, with people who have this kind of mind control, how many personalities are you talking about?

Fritz Springmeier:

A lot. Cisco has 30,000 standard alters and then there are lots of other dissociated pieces too. That would not be abnormal. The small part of the therapeutic community that’s trying to address DID generally work with a few front personalities. There are number of books out there written by people with MPD where the therapist came in and worked with five or six front personalities. The Illuminati step back and allow them to integrate some front personalities and the person is told by the therapist “you are now integrated, you’re fine” and they left therapy, and everybody is happy. The victim thinks they are free of their MPD, the therapist has made a lot of money and gotten famous over some book they have written, and the Illuminati is happy because these are just front alters that have been stabilized. The system of alters are far more complex than people realize.

Wayne Morris:

What are the dangers involved in dealing with therapy with a mind control victim, particularly when a therapist may be unaware of the techniques and structures of mind control?

Fritz Springmeier:

I have to caution people that some of the best minds of the 20th century – we have hundreds, if not thousands, of the best minds who have spent many, many years figuring out how to build these mechanisms into the mind slaves to protect the programming. In a sense what it is like – imagine you are going in to try and hack a computer – imagine a system that is set up so that if someone is not an approved user comes into the room and looks at the computer, the computer shuts down, the computer explodes. That’s really what you are looking at in trying to work with a mind control victim – they have a lot of suicide programming so that if the front alters, the personalities that hold the body day in and day out – if they were ever to find out they were in mind control, or that they were a multiple personality, they would commit suicide. You have all kinds of defensive programs. Not only is the computer programmed to explode if you walk into the room, but if you touch the keyboard as an unauthorized user, again the computer is programmed to explode. Every step of the way there are backup programs to deceive, to destroy. It is not easy. It is something the novice does not want to get into. It’s something that takes a lot of time and patience and skill, and a lot of love for the victims too. One has to really abhor what is going on to have the motivation that it takes to work with such a complex problem.

Wayne Morris:

What would you recommend for therapists wanting to know more about how this is done, and how they can help heal the victims?

Fritz Springmeier:

I strongly recommend our three books – I co-authored these 3 books with Cisco Wheeler. The one I already mentioned, “The Illuminati Formula Used to Create a Total Mind Controlled Slave”. The sequel to that which is 620 pages, “Deeper Insights into the Illuminati Formula”, part 1 is how the control comes about and part 2 is how the help comes about. We’ve got a lot of good information in there laying the foundation as to what’s happened, and how to begin to unravel what has happened.

Wayne Morris:

In terms of your own work, how much success have you had in working with victims of mind control?

Fritz Springmeier:

The problem that the mind control presents is overwhelming, and there are countless therapeutic issues, so there is no end to the different issues that can be worked on. Cisco and I have freely given of our time to help any victim of mind control in whatever way we could. The degree of therapeutic success depends on a number of things. One, it depends upon the situation the victim puts themselves in. If they are willing to extract themselves from their everyday life and go somewhere where it is safe, they are going to do a lot more – work more therapeutic issues, because the mind of a mind controlled slave is not going to let its guard down as long as it’s not safe. This gets back into understanding how the reptilian mind and the survival based thinking can override other areas of the mind. When you become deathly frightened for your life, your survival instincts take precedence over the other parts of your brain. If you have been traumatized your entire life, your survival based thinking is your primary method of thinking and it doesn’t take much to throw you into the fear based survival based thinking. So the first criteria for doing successful work with a mind control victim is to get them someplace safe. You could say that 99.9% of the victims of mind control have never been given that. Therapists do not set things up for survivors or victims of mind control to be in any safe situation. When I say safe, I mean they have to be safe 24 hours a day.

Cisco and I have been able to work with victims to the degree the situation allowed. There is no end to the work we could do if the right set-up presented itself. This is why I was hoping to create a deprogramming centre. There was a man who was CIA who was very horrified at what the government intelligence agencies had been doing to people, and I have a friend whom this CIA man knew who also works at providing therapy for mind control victims. This CIA man wrote into his will to give a number of millions of dollars to my clients for the purpose of doing therapy work with mind control victims. And then my friend in turn was going to give me a couple of million dollars so I could start a deprogramming centre. This man’s will when he died, was in the Oklahoma Federal Building, and the only copy of the will that we know about was in there. So I was rather upset when the building exploded, because that short-circuited our plans to build a couple of deprogramming centres. Short of building some place that is safe and that is staffed with competent people, it is extremely difficult to accomplish much.

Even when I have accomplished positive therapy with a victim, all that it takes for the other side to do is physically grab them and reprogram them. This is what has happened for me over the past years in terms of trying to help victims, and as a warning to the public and the therapeutic community at large, at this point not a whole lot has really been accomplished to thwart the mind control.

Wayne Morris:

Now in the optimal situation, to what degree have you been able to free the victims of the control?

Fritz Springmeier:

Given the optimal situation where we have someone who is safe, we can take down the mind control. We can do some serious re-structuring and make some really serious headway in helping a person. We can do some significant spiritual work with them. There can be some integrating work begun. There are all kinds of things that can happen. On the flip side of it, is the work ever finished? I don’t think it is, because the damage that has been done is so extensive, and you never know as a therapist that you have succeeded in finding every dissociated fragment of the mind. Remember there are thousands of fragments of the mind because the traumatization is so prolonged over so many years, and is so horrific, that you can never be sure that you have gotten all of the dissociated pieces, and each of those dissociated pieces is probably going to have programming attached to it.

Wayne Morris:

What is your sense of how many people have been affected by this?

Fritz Springmeier:

A very conservative estimate – I shouldn’t even say estimate because I have computed it from about seven different angles – a conservative figure is 2 million Americans have been programmed with trauma based total mind control.

Wayne Morris:

And that’s just in the USA?

Fritz Springmeier:

Yes.

Wayne Morris:

And is it your sense that this is going on world-wide?

Fritz Springmeier:

Oh indeed yes, it is. More with your primary political powers. You’ve got programming going on in Europe, Russia, the U.S.A. – those are your primary areas of programming but in other places too.

Wayne Morris:

I would like to talk about some of the other techniques now of mind control. How has electricity played a role?

Fritz Springmeier:

Electric shock has been a standard part of the abuse, and it serves as a form of trauma. And stun guns are a standard item to keep the slaves in line and also to erase their memories. They might use perhaps a 120,000 DC volt stun gun to erase and compartmentalize fragments, memories of a slave who has just been used. When you shock a person, it destroys the short-term memory. It fragments it, 24 hours either way of the event. They can also use the shock treatments like Ewen Cameron to splinter the mind so that’s electro-shock. Elecricity has been used in terms of implements or devices that have been implanted into people and also used in equipment that will throw thoughts into a peron’s mind. You have microwave towers going up vectoring in ELF waves into people’s minds. So electricity is being used in a lot of high tech ways, or electromagnetic waves are being used in a lot of high techn ways …

They have different machines – EDOM electronic dissolution of memory where they wipe out your memory; harmonic machines that are used which some of your speakers have probably talked about – these machines can be used for the deprogramming work too. Electricity is also used in the flip way in that since the human brain gives off frequencies, they go in and scan a person’s personal frequencies they are giving off. There is a prime freq – which is the primary frequency a person gives off and that can be used to identify them from a distance. They know the different frequencies that the brain uses. Coming at it from a different angle, if you think of the brain when it creates a particular thought, it gives off particular frequencies. They simply created particular thoughts within a person and monitored electrical impulses along with that thought, fed that into computers. I am simplifying what they did – but basically that’s what they have done to decode being able to read what their brain is thinking. If you monitor the frequencies that are being given off by a person, then you can monitor what their thoughts are. So not only can you throw particular thoughts into people’s heads, but they can monitor their thoughts too.A lot of the monitoring and instilling of thoughts, etc. are being done with implants.

Wayne Morris:

Can we just go back to electroshock. You mentioned that it is used to erase memories perhaps of the identity of the people who are doing the programming. But don’t they run the risk of erasing the programming itself? How do they deal with that?

Fritz Springmeier:

This gets back into understanding how the programming is put in, and the level at which it is put in. Remember we talked about dissociated states? The primary programming that is put in is put in at a comatose level. There are different levels that you can program somebody to – if you start out with an adult, for instance, the CIA’s nomenclature is mind control Level 5. Somebody who has been given mind control to the 5th level generally has some cover story like for Roseanne Barr – she had an automobile accident apparently as a teenager. They take these people in and they are taken down to a comatose level where their bodies are comatose for quite a long period of time, and the programming is put in at an extremely deep level. At a level where your mind is regulating your heartbeat. The programming is put in and it is nested in at an extremely deep level. When they destroy short-term memory with electroshocking, that’s not even coming close to the deep programs – that is just affecting the short-term memory.

Wayne Morris:

Have they deliberately regulated the amount of electricity in terms of achieving a desired effect?

Fritz Springmeier:

Oh yeah. Everything is extremely scientific. This is why they had to do a lot of the horrific testing during WWII in the concentration camps. You just don’t traumatize a person indiscriminately or you will kill them. You have to know what you are doing. They have doctors and heart monitoring equipment. The fundamental programming is done in hospital settings, or hospital-type settings. That’s why a lot of the VA hospitals here in the USA – actually all of the VA hospitals – have been used for programming. A lot of the other civilian hospitals have also had particular wards set up where they were able to do programming. They are monitoring heartbeat, they know just how far to push them. When they start going into a near-death experience they know exactly when they can electroshock them to bring them back to life, etc. It is very skilled. They have to be very skilled in the drugs they use, how and when they administer them, what they do when the person is under drugs. What they do is not haphazard.

Wayne Morris:

So a lot of experimentation has gone into refining these techniques?

Fritz Springmeier:

Yes. Exactly.

Wayne Morris:

Can you tell us if you know anything about the development of brain implant technology and that has been used for mind control?

Fritz Springmeier:

There are six different types of implants. Audio implants that are used to allow the victim to hear something. Body manipulation implants that are put in to manipulate the body in some way, perhaps to release a hormone or to keep them from getting pregnant or to torture them, or something like that. Then you have a visual holographic implant which will give a holographic image to the person. You have implants that are mimics or brain link implants that if I want to directly download something to the brain, those are very secret implants. The implants are not used across the board with all mind controlled slaves. There are select groups that are receiving the implants and like the mimics, implants are only going to a select group. Then you’ve got your torture and muscle stimulating implants. Then the one everybody hears about – the tracking and ID implants – that everybody is so concerned about. Those are the implants that were given to a lot of American soldiers in Desert Storm. They were told they needed implants so that the global positioning system could keep track of them so they wouldn’t get lost in the desert.

Wayne Morris:

I am curious about the actual implants themselves in terms of how they are implanted and approximately the size through the development of the technology?

Fritz Springmeier:

The development has gotten really high tech. You have several types of development here that need to be brought out. One, that’s called “nanobots” – nanotechnology which are tiny little robots that range from 10-1/1000 billionth of a meter. The word “nano” means billionth – we are talking extremely microscopic robots here that are able to replicate themselves. Molecular size robots. Possibly the listeners have heard of the Scanning Tunnelling microscope? There are different names for it, but it is a little device that can actually see a single atom, and actually pick up atoms and move them. That’s used to develop these nanobots which are robots that can self replicate. You have fibre optics that have been developed and you will have some victims that if they get rid of their fibre optics – the fibre optic that is stuck into the victim often looks like a hair.

Wayne Morris:

What typically are these fibre optic implants used for?

Fritz Springmeier:

Good question. I wish I really knew the answer for that. Fibre optic glass will carry signals, so in broad I can say the implants are being used to transmit signals, I know that much. But I don’t know all the ins and outs of what kinds of signals are being sent. I have one victim of mind control who had been sitting in a restaurant – it is sort of analogous to a blowgun where they have hit her with something that looks just like a little hair and the fiber optic filament embeds itself in her skin. While she is sitting there eating, they have shot this filament into her. Fortunately she noticed they had done this, and pulled it out. I had female victims who had fiber optics that was disguised as hair that were put on their bodies. I don’t know the full role of the fiber optics but I know it is involved in communications. One of the more dangerous developments are your organic bioprocessors. These are molecular computers that are made up of DNA material. You’ve got DNA templates and you can also have carbon chains that are used. What they do is – with this biomaterial that is made into a mini-computer, they will link that to a virus and viruses oftentimes have a particular area of the body they like to migrate to. For instance a neurotropic virus will migrate to the nervous system or a dermatropic virus will migrate to the skin, pneuomtropic virus will go to the lungs. They attack their little organic viral processor to this virus. How do you get a virus into a person? There are a dozen different ways, it is easy to get a virus into a victim’s/host’s body. So once these viruses migrate to that area of the body they prefer, you’ve got a tiny little implant that is then doing whatever function it is programmed to do. These are extremely difficult to locate.

I have noticed in victims that have the virus implants that there will be a sort of central control implant a lot of times put in the bottom base of the neck. The central command implant will be receiving external signals and then will in turn monitor the body suit of implants. Some of the victims of these implants seem to have gotten some relief from being able to kill the viruses. There are some alternative medical methods that might be suggested to the victims that could take out these bio processors.

Wayne Morris:

For some of the larger implants, have victims been able to locate and remove these kinds of implants somehow?

Fritz Springmeier:

Yes. There have been a number of victims that have been identified – have been able to take x-rays, have been able to get other types of scanning mechanisms. There were three victims of electronic mind control that managed to, as a group, get into an Anacoic Chamber and get results when their signals were pinpointed as to source. They had to smuggle the paperwork out from the lab in their bras because the lab technicians were afraid of getting into trouble. Different victims of electronic mind control have managed to get some proof or have actually pulled some of it out. There are some doctors that actually have some of the implants. There are a few clean surgeons that are willing to help victims. I might mention the word Syntel here … that’s an important word for people to be familiar with in understanding implants. Syntel is something that has been discussed by our government repeatedly in some of their conferences. You will hear the military in some of their semi-secret conferences discussing Syntel. That’s short for synthetic telepathy which means sending to victims voices and thoughts – so these victims of Syntel are people who are receiving voices and thoughts electronically.

Wayne Morris:

That seems to be able to be used in a couple of different ways in terms of control, but also in terms of the situation with people claiming they are hearing voices who are often labelled schizophrenic or psychotic … it seems to be a way of discrediting these people.

Fritz Springmeier:

Something that was developed and used during the space program which is called biomedical telemetry – these are transmitters and receivers located at the base of the skull which record the body functions and the brain waves, and send it back to some computer somewhere. In fact in working with victims of electronic mind control I can say with certainty that is what is being done is that there are computers that are programmed with artificial intelligence that are their handlers. Rather than having a human handler day in and out, three shifts of human handlers controlling the victim of electronic mind control, they have computers with A.I. Then if the victim does something that throws the computer, the computer will signal a human to come and get involved. It’s been kind of interesting, the stories that victims have told me about how they outsmarted the computers that were trying to handle them.

Source